Need advice in NY State

Parents Forum
41

<p>I agree with the previous posters. College search is new to us, but I would define the rigor to be schools that are beyond the Regents and Advanced Regents. I think it would be defined as AP rich or IB. Just an advanced regents isnt what it was when we graduated. </p>

<p>My D is in what I would term an academically rigorous program. Regents Math and Science , Language, and English requirements are completed by Sophmore year. All students are required to take APs starting sophmore year and there is an additional IB track for advanced students. Students begin math, science, and spanish early in 8th grade. Most student at D’s school already have two APs under their belt. This year, junior year, most all classes are a combo of AP or IB, for the students that can keep up. The regents exams are an afterthought. </p>

<p>To show the rigor, I would have her take as many AP and IBs that you can have her take. </p>

<p>On the Spanish angle- Based on our experience at our school, a fair number of students have high 90’s to 100 on the Spanish Regents. It is typically followed by an additional two years of IB Spanish (or other language). D was thrilled with her 99 on spanish until she discovered she was one of many at her school.</p>

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<p>“I had student waitlisted last semester from a OOS top 20 LAC (which was SAT optional). When I called the school to inquire about the waitlist and what can we do to help move her off of the waitlist, the rep specifically stated that the regents grades were a problem. For admissions purposes SUNY does look carefully at the math regents scores, along the english, global and US for writing ability (unless they were blatantly lying at the SUNY counselor meeting that I just attended).”</p>

<p>That is interesting since the GC at my son’s school (it’s private but the kids still take the regents and get a regents diploma and he told me that not only do schools OOS not care about the Regents most don’t even know what they are, and they do not even go on their transcripts. </p>

<p>When I was in high school only kids who had to go to state schools even bothered taking regents exams.</p>

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<p>“SUNY and Regents and Advanced diplomas…it must make a difference, I mean, wouldn’t a college evaluate a GPA of 3.5 at a highly competitive HS differently from the same GPA at a non-competitive school? The advanced diploma requires 3 lab sciences and three years of foreign language so it is a more demanding courseload.”</p>

<p>I recall that your daughter is at a private school and therefore I would assume they have a fairly good idea of what level of classes she can handle. Most private schools don’t allow one to take advanced classes without the teacher and GC recommendations. </p>

<p>I know when my son moved from his public school to his private they initially put him in regents but by his soph. yr. he was moved into all honors classes. He never took a single AP class but did take physics at the community college his Sr. yr.</p>

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<p>The operative phase her is your son attended private school. However, in NYS public schools, unless your school has a waiver from the state students must take and pass regents exams in order to graduate.</p>

<p>In NYC public schools the regents grades are automatically placed on the transcripts (A student cannot be certified as a graduate unless the grades are on the transcript). </p>

<p>Due to the overwhelming number of students scoring a 65/66 on the regents exams, in order to prevent “scrubbing” of the exams to help students receive a higher score, effective with the June 2011 administration of the Regents exam, NYSED requires item-level data for selected Regents exams: This includes the following subjects:</p>

<p>Comprehensive English
Integrated Algebra
Earth Science
Living Environment
US History & Government
Global Studies & Geography</p>

<p>SED no longer be includes Answer Page in the Test booklet for these 6 exams
Student responses and teacher scores need to be scanned. Teachers must still score constructed response portions of exams. The grading scale for the exam is no longer provided in advance.</p>

<p><a href=“http://cfn201.wikispaces.com/file/view/1.+Regents-Scanning-Handbook+ATS_STARS.pdf[/url]”>http://cfn201.wikispaces.com/file/view/1.+Regents-Scanning-Handbook+ATS_STARS.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p><a href=“http://www.flushinghighschool.org/ourpages/auto/2011/4/18/57674872/June%202011%20HS%20Regents%20Testing%20and%20Scanning%20Procedures.pdf[/url]”>http://www.flushinghighschool.org/ourpages/auto/2011/4/18/57674872/June%202011%20HS%20Regents%20Testing%20and%20Scanning%20Procedures.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p><a href=“http://www.flushinghighschool.org/ourpages/auto/2011/4/18/57674872/Regents%20Scanning%20Frequently%20Asked%20Question%20for%20June%202011%20As%20of%202011%2006%2007.pdf[/url]”>http://www.flushinghighschool.org/ourpages/auto/2011/4/18/57674872/Regents%20Scanning%20Frequently%20Asked%20Question%20for%20June%202011%20As%20of%202011%2006%2007.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>Students are scheduled for Regents exams in STARS**
Answer sheets are generated and printed ATS prior to the exam</p>

<p>Answer sheets for Regents exams are scanned into ATS and automatically updated to the STARS system</p>

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<p>I am quite sure that when you were in high school, many students did not even receive a regents diploma because passing the regents was not mandatory to get a high school diploma and most students graduated with a local diploma. Many students took and passed the RCT (which is now used as the alternative testing for IEP students who have failed the regents) in order to graduate. I graduated from one of the top 3 NYC specialized high schools 35 years ago and pretty much everyone graduated with an advanced regents diploma, not because everyone was trying to get an advanced regents diploma but because minimally, all of the math and science courses culminated in a regents (we also had a full AP curriculum) . </p>

<p>When my D started HS, they were starting to phase in the transition for all students to get a regents diploma (when you could get credit with a low pass score). I remember some parents being in a panic over the regents. At that time I could not figure out what the big deal was because in my high school experience, I only knew about the regents exams.</p>

<p>Things have come full circle, because the regents math sequence then was algebra, geometry & trig.</p>

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<p>For merit, and even need based money at privates, you may need to set you sights a little lower (than Skidmore and Muhlenberg) in terms of prestige. I would suggest looking at the B and B+ threads, and see where some of those students have received merit money. If your daughter can get her test scores above 600, and can maintain a 90+ average, she would be a “better than average” student for those schools…and she could possibly qualify for their honors programs. Univ of Hartford and was mentioned. I’d add Hofstra and Adelphi on Long Island and Quinnipiac in Ct</p>

47

<p>I think the fact that the Regent’s Scores are right there on the transcripts makes it hard for even out of state colleges to ignore them. Remember also, that many colleges have regional reps who do the first read on applications, they are even more likely to know the ins and outs of NY style diplomas. At our school Regent’s scores are factored into the final grade, so flunking the Regent’s test will generally put a big hit on the final grade as well.</p>

<p>

Maybe I am misunderstanding you, or maybe you just mistyped. But generally schools where you are above the 25% - 75% range will be your “safety” schools, not your “reach” schools. And you are more likely to get aid at safety schools. </p>

<p>Colleges definitely consider courseload when evaluating students, but it’s not really a question of Regent’s or Advanced Regents except in NY - they are mostly looking at honors and AP courses vs regular courses. Taking three years of a foreign language instead of two isn’t necessarily a more advanced level of work if you happen to be good at them. Taking an honors foreign language instead of a regular one (if your school offers such an option, ours only does in some languages at some levels) is more likely to be judged as advanced.</p>

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<p>"I am quite sure that when you were in high school, many students did not even receive a regents diploma because passing the regents was not mandatory to get a high school diploma and most students graduated with a local diploma. Many students took and passed the RCT (which is now used as the alternative testing for IEP students who have failed the regents) in order to graduate. I graduated from one of the top 3 NYC specialized high schools 35 years ago and pretty much everyone graduated with an advanced regents diploma, not because everyone was trying to get an advanced regents diploma but because minimally, all of the math and science courses culminated in a regents (we also had a full AP curriculum) .</p>

<p>When my D started HS, they were starting to phase in the transition for all students to get a regents diploma (when you could get credit with a low pass score). I remember some parents being in a panic over the regents. At that time I could not figure out what the big deal was because in my high school experience, I only knew about the regents exams.</p>

<p>Things have come full circle, because the regents math sequence then was algebra, geometry & trig."</p>

<p>I graduated in '74 and the only kids who took the regents exams were kids who had to stay in NY for college and needed the regents scholarship. It was, and I kid you not, something looked down upon, that one was not smart enough to go to a top school. </p>

<p>No one took any exam in order to graduate. Maybe things were done differently in NYC. </p>

<p>The parents in my district now were very unhappy when the change in the regents started as they felt it was dumbing down the curriculum. </p>

<p>That was the math sequence I took also. Thank goodness they finally got rid of that Math A and Math B, although when they were making the switch my district hadn’t decided on a text book yet so in 8th grade math my kid had no textbook. That was rough - more for us than him because we had nothing to refer to if he needed help.</p>

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<p>Another NY State HS grad from the '70’s. Type of kid who took Regents must have been different at different High Schools. At my HS, virtually all college-bound students took Regents exams and got a Regents diploma. It was used in the calculation of the final grade and wasn’t at all looked down upon. This was an upstate city high school with a large majority of moderate to low income families – that offered no AP’s in the '70’s…so Regents courses were the “highest” level, at that time. </p>

<p>Regents scholarship could be used at almost any NY school, not just SUNY schools…so it was a good deal for no additional work for smart kids who could get into top schools like Columbia, Vassar, Skidmore etc. </p>

<p>Sorry to derail this thread with discussion of Regents exams!</p>

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<p>As I stated earlier, I graduated in 1976 from one of the big 3 NYC specialized high schools (Stuyvesant, Bx Science, Bklyn Tech), where minimally every student graduated from these high schools with a regents diploma (most had advanced regents diplomas). </p>

<p>At that time, passing the regents was not mandatory for a student to graduate from high school (students could graduate taking the RCT). </p>

<p>In the 70’s most students graduated high school with a local diploma. At that time students could graduate high school with a either an academic or vocational diploma as there were many vocational education schools. </p>

<p>In fact it was the students who did not graduate with a regents diploma, because a regents diploma has always topped a local diploma and most college bound students were advised to get a regents diploma. (x-posted with 2boysima)</p>

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<p>Not where I lived (an upstate upper middle class suburb.) My friends went to all of the top schools, Ivy’s, the Seven Sisters, Middlebury, Amherst, Bowdoin, Haverford, etc. etc. etc. Not one took the regents and none of us took any exam to get an academic diploma. </p>

<p>There was no “regents” curriculum at my high school. The kids who needed to take it just took it. I am sure our course work was above and beyond the regents curriculum because those who took it didn’t have any trouble passing it. </p>

<p>We had no AP’s either and no honors classes either. Every one took the same classes and I suppose you either did well or you didn’t. That was what the district where I live now was like also. After the regents became mandatory they had to create honors classes (the old curriculum) and offer AP classes so there was more academic rigor. Those kids simply review for a week or two things they need to know to pass the regents. My son did the same thing at his private school before taking the regents exams. </p>

<p>There was no such thing as the RCT in my school. Never even heard of it. I bet it was a NYC thing.</p>

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They certainly exist in our school system, not in NYC. According to Wikipedia most NYS private students take Regents exams too, though not the top private schools.</p>

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<p>^That may be but we definitely didn’t have to take any special exam to graduate or earn our diploma in 1974 in my school district. </p>

<p>Yes, some private schools in NY do offer regents, my son’s private school did. However, his regents exam scores did not go on his transcript.</p>

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<p>It is not a NYC thing, it is a NYS thing.</p>

<p>Since 2005, once the state began implementing regents based diploma requirements, the RCT (Regents Competency Test) is Local Diploma Safety Net Options for Students with Disabilities.</p>

<p><a href=“http://www.nyssca.org/NYSED.htm[/url]”>http://www.nyssca.org/NYSED.htm&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>Students with Disabilities can meet the state requirements for a local diploma by either scoring between a 55-64 on any or all required Regents exams or</p>

<p>Passing the corresponding Regents Competency Test (RCT) if failed a required Regents exam.</p>

<p>Before that, students who did not take the NYS regents exam could take the RCT to fulfill the NYS testing requirements.</p>

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<p>From a small district in Upstate NY, my experience was like that of 2boysima in post 49. Those of us who were college bound took the Regents Exams and earned Regents Diplomas. I was very proud of that Regents Scholarship even though I couldn’t use it at my out of state private college.</p>

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<p>Had two kids six years apart in NY state public schools, and I can attest that it was a period of much change. Neither H nor I are fromNY state, so it was all new to us, and a good thing, too, since people who had gone through the system thought they understood it only to have it change formtheir children.</p>

<p>When older kid graduated, I would agree that OOS privates didn’t care about Regents score. IDK whether it came into play for younger kid, but since NCLB mandated exit exams in every state, it makes sense to me that they are now looked at and could be a tie breaker between two identical kids. For all I know (no kids left in PS) the exit exams are on the way put. And as the world turns … The more they stay the same, or words to that effect.</p>

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<p>"It is not a NYC thing, it is a NYS thing.</p>

<p>Since 2005, once the state began implementing regents based diploma requirements, the RCT (Regents Competency Test) is Local Diploma Safety Net Options for Students with Disabilities."</p>

<p>I was talking about what it was like in the 1970’s, not now. I know that there is an alternative exam NOW for kids with disabilities. I believe I was quite clear I was talking about when I was in high school. In your post you stated that when you were in high school kids took the RCT and I was simply pointing out that I was in school no one took and exam to earn their diploma.</p>

<p>There was NO testing requirement in NYS in 1974 to graduate high school.</p>

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<p>Hey again everyone,</p>

<p>The regents conversation has been hard to follow, in terms of our different experiences over different decades, but I’m glad it has geenrated energy to keep thread going. </p>

<p>In D’s case her remaining HS classes are set and will total 3 APs, 1 college course and 6 Honors (roughly half coursework) and if her slight upward trajectory continues she will end with a 90% which, as has been pointed out, is enough to make this mom proud but not very encouraging considering our high financial need. </p>

<p>My big learning has been to lower our sights. Since we arre starting out and have four more kids to follow, my main concern is to learn how to categorize LACs related to our kids’ records and our family finances. (Not to sound defensive but I never proposed honors programs at private colleges, only a less competitive honros program at one particular SUNY, to keep her connected and motivated. ) </p>

<p>Regarding the percentile comment, yes, my understanding – which I gleamed from these posts! – is that in order to be considered for significant fin aid a student should be around the 75% or above. Only top notch private LACs give need-based aid, and her grades/test scores will not qualify her for any of them. When I do match searches on college websites it is misleading, b/c schools show up for which she does fall into the 50% middle range. However, this does not mean she is a good candidate for huge financial aid at those schools. </p>

<p>It is sobering to “get it” that the competition is so fierce. Sounds silly now to state the obvious but Lafayette and Connecticut are too high reaches. I have surmised from this thread that Skidmore and Muhlenberg are too…will see from her spring grades/scores if it is even worth trying. Marist, Siena and our wonderful SUNY NP are in the running. SUNY NP tour is Saturday, Marist next week. Marist is actually more competitive than I thought and there is a concern about fin aid, but the HS has a close relationship and re money she could commute / put credits toward a semester / etc. so I’m not giving up on it (yet). Plus…most importantly, she likes it!</p>

<p>Oh - and true, in a state with millions of Latinos “ace” is too strong a word for Spanish fluency, previous posters are right. Academically it is her strongest point, she earned an award for the highest grade in all Spanish classes overall. Okay, won’t count on it as much as I had hoped.</p>

<p>Being bilingual wasn’t what I thought would make her interesting as a candidate, it was more the experience of living abroad during secondary school, in an indigenous (native) community. How she brings it out in her essay or interviews will be up to her. Obviously there are many kids with abroad exp so she is not unique but it might be interesting to mainline Protestant/Catholic schools since we were there as dev’t missionaries. </p>

<p>She may not want to talk about carrying our water in buckets and learning words in Mixtec but if she does, it would be memorable!</p>

<p>Changing the subject – am I paranoid to worry about low grad rates? Since realzing that I should lower my sights (interestingly D already was doing so instinctively), I now am looking at schools which I had originally doubted b/c of low retention and grad rates.</p>

<p>How seriously should these be taken? Anyone want to shed light on this, it is of serious concern to me but are my concerns warranted?</p>

<p>You all have given me a lot to assimilate, and I think I have enough to mull over for a while, once her spring grades and scores come in we can go a further step…but in the meantime, any thoughts on grad rates are welcome. </p>

<p>Not sure how much longer this thread will continue so thanks for all the communication, I think it is obvious that it has really helped me to reframe my approach. In the end it is about the best match for D, and finding a balance for her, and this information will help me to remain positive and loving as we encourage her to take on her own college search. I am getting enough from you all to be able to set some parameters for her --realistically – so that she can make her own choices.</p>

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<p>Momcino
I just wanted to let you know that you are not the only ones who had to “get it”
in terms of both getting in to a school and paying for it.</p>

<p>It is a sobering realization</p>

<p>I how competitive things were until DD was in 10th grade. I wished I had realized sooner
I would have saved more!</p>

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<p>Since my first child graduated in 2004 and my next graduates in 2013 I think I need to re-read this thread. Sounds like lots of changes. I don’t really care what the testing requirements were in 1974. None of that matters anymore. Not even the 2004 experience matters anymore! I’m more interested in understanding the various SUNY schools and what each one is best at. Anybody got a run down of that?</p>