Need Advice on Appealing Inaccurate Aid

Paying for College
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<p>My son is an American citizen born and raised in Tokyo, Japan. I filled out the FAFSA. But it does not allow you to factor in things such as the extremely high cost of living in Tokyo. My son was accepted at UCLA and matriculated. But the "free money" came to only about $250 in the form of a grant. The remainder (about $45,000) was in the form of Stafford and Parent PLUS Loans. UCLA said we can appeal. But if I "plead poverty" (which I can back up enough to justify getting everything except out-of-state tuition* replaced with grants), will UCLA or its banks reduce or take away the loans we have already received out of concern about our financial viability? I heard a rumor to the effect that some schools and their banks do that.</p>

<p>*UCLA says that they are not allowed to cover out-of-state tuition with free money.</p>

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<p>ForeverLearning, I don’t know anything about how UCLA works, but please realize that FAFSA does not take into account the high costs of living anywhere, in the States or abroad. FAFSA considers where you live to be a choice you make, even if that location is necessary for your employment.</p>

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<p>True. That is why I prefer the CSS and its free comments area.</p>

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<p>CSS also does not do a lot of cos tof living adjustments :(</p>

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<p>ForeverLearning:</p>

<p>The UCs do not provide great financial aid to instate residents. All UC finaid comes with a large self-help component, even for Pell Grantees (very low income). It is highly unlikely that UC will not replace the non-OOS portion with 100% grants. So the short answer to your question, is probably no, since your “financial viability” is not necessarily an issue for the taxpayers in the State of California.</p>

<p>btw: To plead “poverty” you need to amend the fafsa to eliminate income and/or assets. They can also take into consideration extenuating circumstances, such as high medical bills, but they will likely require proof.</p>

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<p>True. But one has the option of adding such information to the CSS section for free comments. Unfortunately, UCLA does not accept the CSS (except for its med school).</p>

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<p>Usually people complain about having to fill out the PROFILE, and they are told that many schools don’t require the PROFILE, although they may have their own forms.</p>

<p>But for you I will say- well UCLA may not take the PROFILE- but these schools do! :wink:
<a href=“https://profileonline.collegeboard.com/PXRemotePartInstitutionServlet/PXRemotePartInstitutionServlet.srv[/url]”>https://profileonline.collegeboard.com/PXRemotePartInstitutionServlet/PXRemotePartInstitutionServlet.srv&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

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<p>bluebayou,</p>

<p>UCLA told me over the phone that state (and federal?) law prohibits them from offering free money to cover any out-of-state (OOS) tuition. But when one considers that about $20,000 of our $45,000 bill is for OOS, that leaves $25,000 that can feasibly be covered. But, if I understand you correctly, you believe it is highly unlikely that they will cover all of that $25,000. Then what are the chances of them, for example, splitting the difference and covering $12,500? I would certainly hope that they would increase the $250 “bone” they have thrown us so far, even without an appeal from us yet. </p>

<p>I should point out that the finaid we got is called an ePAL, which is an estimate. The eFAN, which they consider to be their official offer (but still open to appeal), won’t be out until June or July.</p>

<p>Anyway, my main concern is that we might lose the Stafford and Parent PLUS Loans that they have already offered if they consider us a credit risk through pleading poverty. At the same time, my son has been accepted by them and then registered for admission this fall. They would therefore help us arrange some kind of sufficient aid package, wouldn’t they (even if it meant unsubsidized loans)?</p>

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<p>emeraldkity4,</p>

<p>Yes, I considered discussing that will UCLA as a part of negotiations. But my hands are sort of tied in two ways. 1) UCLA and USC were my sons first-choice schools. USC did not accept him. Five other schools did and he is on two wait-lists. The best grant/scholarship came to about $15,000 a year for a private school. But that was one of my son’s safety schools. 2) To make matters worse, unlike all the other schools that accepted my son and gave him a clear indication of the finaid, UCLA won’t do so until June or July. The national school registration deadline is May 1. So that did not put me in a good position to bargain with UCLA based on other offers.</p>

<p>Our only option is to appeal one or more times. My main question is how far I can go in appealing without them or their banks considering us a credit risk and scaling back on an already measly ePAL, or worst case, removing all aid.</p>

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<p>This link will explain loans.
[FinAid</a> | Financial Aid Applications](<a href=“Your Guide for College Financial Aid - Finaid”>FAFSA - Finaid)</p>

<p>This may help as well.
[University</a> of California - Counselors](<a href=“http://www.universityofcalifornia.edu/educators/counselors/adminfo/fees.html]University”>http://www.universityofcalifornia.edu/educators/counselors/adminfo/fees.html)</p>

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<p>emeraldkity4,</p>

<p>Thanks for that second link. The part about half-way down was very reassuring. The several times I called the finaid office I got a bunch of “maybe’s”, including when I spoke with my son’s aid counselor. I understand that they cannot commit over the phone before they have even worked out their official eFAN. But it was disconcerting. And it is even more so when you read about appealing on their website. A through Z are not allowed unless…loss of job, severe disability, death.</p>

<p>But reading the Financing a UC Education and the talk about “partnership” among the parents, student, and school was very reassuring. Thank you!</p>

<p>Now, I can petition with peace of mind.</p>

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<p>Well…I hate to be “unreassuring” but you aren’t a resident of CA. It’s highly unlikely that they will reduce your cost of attendance to instate because you live in a high cost of living area.</p>

<br>

<br>

<p>I’m not sure why you put this in your post. If UCLA doesn’t accept the Profile, you can’t submit one. They only consider the information on the applications THEY require. Even for schools that accept the Profile, that information section can be used any way they choose. From what I understand, the schools will look at extenuating circumstances such as high medical bills or loss of income due to lost jobs, etc. They don’t look at the high cost of living of your area. </p>

<p>You can submit an appeal…but do have other options just in case it doesn’t work out. It probably won’t. The UC’s primary responsibility is to provide an education to the students of families who pay taxes in their state.</p>

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<p>thumper1,</p>

<p>You make many very good points, for which I thank you. To begin with, though I would love to get in-state tuition, I know that we cannot hope for that now. </p>

<p>That said, I would like UCLA to do a better job of obtaining accurate financial info on its incoming students. I have no problem with CA residents getting first dibs. They deserve it. I simply wish that UCLA would have previously decided to use the CSS for those families without pre-med students so that they better know where applicants stand. </p>

<p>Nonetheless, I am happy that there is an appeals process. And the appeals can be repeated until the appealer feels satisfied. I believe that one reason this process was put in place is that UCLA realizes that the FAFSA is inaccurrate/incomplete and that they need more info in certain cases. They told me as much over the phone.</p>

<p>FYI, We have relatives who have long been in the state, even born there. So we feel as if my son’s going to UCLA is much more like a natural next step than an intrusion on anyone’s "private educational property.'</p>

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<p>ForeverLearning, you keep talking about UCLA “doing a better job” in giving financial aid to out of state students. UCLA has no such obligation, and in fact never promises that it will do so. Out of staters have long complained bout the cost of going to California state schools.</p>

<p>If you needed more FA, your son should have focused on schools that give more aid, or that promise to meet 100% of need. </p>

<p>

Unlikely (for any schools that do not promise to meet 100% of need). The fact that your son has chosen a school that you may be unable to afford is not UCLA’s problem; it’s yours.</p>

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<p>Chedva,</p>

<p>The cost is indeed our issue. But we are not beggars. We hope to petition for fair aid. That means UCLA will fully consider what my son has to offer: GPA of over 3.9, soccer captain and champion, school treaurer, and more.</p>

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<p>GPA of over 3.9, soccer captain and champion, school treaurer, and more.
Thats not need, thats is merit. And unless he is a double amputee not uncommon.</p>

<p>UCLA won’t do so until June or July. The national school registration deadline is May 1. So that did not put me in a good position to bargain with UCLA based on other offers.</p>

<p>Part of the problem many students have when anticipating what fees public schools will charge.
For example, I just requested my loan amount yesterday for the 2008-2009 school year. When I finally made it home, I read an article in todays paper about how tuition is being raised. So now I have to see if I can get my loan increased. :p</p>

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<p>FL- your post seems seriously unrealisitic. It sounds like you are planning for your son to attend UCLA and relying on appeals to make the funding possible, thinking that explaining the high cos tof living in Tokyo will get you more help.</p>

<p>It does not work that way at UCs</p>

<p>The profile does not really take into account high cost of living either, there are a few questions about the value & equity in your home- that is not to adjust their expectation downward because your home costs a lot, it is to access your equity. </p>

<p>Since your son is a US citizen he may qualify for a Pell grant, but not if your income is too high, it doesn’t matter what your expenses are- ask the people in NY/NJ</p>

<p>You won’t get a Cal Grant as a non-resident of CA</p>

<p>You might see an ACG grant, but only if he gets the Pell and then meets further ACG qualifiers</p>

<p>Other than that you need merit aid: alumni, regents, etc</p>

<p>You’d better surf this site:</p>

<p>[UCLA</a> Financial Aid Office !](<a href=“http://www.fao.ucla.edu./fao_information_types.htm%5DUCLA”>http://www.fao.ucla.edu./fao_information_types.htm)</p>

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<p>You can go here:</p>

<p>[IFAP</a> - Information for Financial Aid Professionals](<a href=“http://www.ifap.ed.gov/IFAPWebApp/currentEFCInformationYearPag.jsp?p1=2008-2009&p2=c]IFAP”>http://www.ifap.ed.gov/IFAPWebApp/currentEFCInformationYearPag.jsp?p1=2008-2009&p2=c)
using the info you provided on FAFSA you can verify your EFC is correctly calculated.</p>

<p>UCLA will use the federal numbers, the UCs are very formulaic, they are a public institution and cannot make many judgement calls, they have to go by the formula</p>

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<p>the UCs are very formulaic, they are a public institution and cannot make many judgement calls, they have to go by the formula</p>

<p>good point- whereas a private school may have it’s own money to assign merit aid- or even adjust the figures, the FAFSA is used for PELL, Stafford & Perkins monies.</p>

<p>Example-
my daughter applied to three schools ( say)
one is private- despite our documented information of medical bills etc, they cannot adjust the EFC, lower than what FAFSA comes up with.
Her package consists of subsidized stafford loans, Perkins loans, workstudy and a college grant.
One school is instate public- our FAFSA EFC is about what costs are, we can take out PLUS loans!
Lucky us
:rolleyes:
One school out of state public, they offered a merit grant to help mitigate the costs of attending out of state.</p>

<p>It is on the student to have a plan of how to pay for school- a good fit school is one that you have a good chance of being accepted and a likelihood of being able to afford it ( with only Stafford loans, which every one can recieve)</p>

<p>Schools do not adjust " what is fair" because you have high living expenses. Our region for example, is much, much more expensive than rest of state. Oh well, everyone living in the state is expected to pay Blank.
College expenses are not to be solely paid from current earnings, but from savings, future earnings ( loans) and work (study).</p>

<p>If she had applied to two private schools- that were comparable- say Pomona and Amherst and one offered her way more money ( same EFC, but Amherst offered private loans instead of grants-) she could mention that politely that she would prefer Amherst but Pomona is much more affordable- Amherst may adjust package or they might not.</p>

<p>Or if one school had a very different EFC, than a comparable school, I might ask for clarification of the figures. One school might have added all of 401K as an asset, instead of just the money that I added to retirement account last year.</p>

<p>If the schools have similar EFC and similar packages its probably accurate.
But another point- some schools offer attractive packages freshmen year to get students to attend.
Non repeating packages.
Be wary and if UCLA doesn’t look affordable for all 4 years with current offer, look at other schools.</p>

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<p>? for original poster, what is your EFC??
If the answer if 45K, don’t expect money from any but the most generous (exclusive) of colleges</p>