Need advice on college choice, $$, etc.

Parents Forum
141

I think that in “some” cases, telling a child that they can go where they want, or that there’s savings to pay for anywhere can back-fire.

I’ve seen kids here on CC (especially ones with modest stats) ignoring more reasonably-priced schools (with similar offerings and fit), just because they know that there are savings/fund to pay for their choice. That’s fine if money is no object in the household, but it’s kind of wasteful if that money could later be used for a house down payment later, grad school costs, or something else…and the kid still gets a good college experience at a less-expensive school.

142

What grates on me are the threads where a younger child posts that their parents can’t help them with college because the parents took on big debt for an older sibling or two. So unfair.

I am glad OP is thinking of both children.

143

I’m not sure if anyone already said this but there is always so much outside scholarship money that goes unclaimed! My cousin graduated last year and went to Yale. His parents were kinda in the same spot and started to pushback when they saw the price. He ended up applying to about 20 outside scholarships and got an extra 30,000 dollars for collage. It was a lot of work on his part because he had to write a fair amount of essays, but it was worth it if he wanted to go. Also some of the prompts were the same so he reused some essays.

144

It’s clear the OP went into this whole process saying (thinking??) that money was not an issue, and the the kid applied to schools accordingly. Unless either the family’s financial situation has substantially changed or the parents had grossly miscalculated their ability to pay, it’s more than a tad disingenuous at best – and cruel at worst – to now say that money is indeed an issue, or that you are no longer willing to pay for Princeton, or that you will only pay as much as the cost of a UC.

That said, it is certainly within your right to pay as much or as little as you see fit, given that it is your money. Actions, however, have consequences, and if your son thinks that you are begrudging him something that you promised him and that you can indeed afford, he may end up being resentful. I clearly remember my father wincing and making some rather distasteful comments as he was handing over the registration check after I had decided to transfer from a very affordable state school to a private university (something my parents could certainly afford to pay for – the truth is, my father simply did not want to fork over the $$). I should point out that this was nearly forty years ago. I also clearly remember, nearly two decades later, my mother encouraging me to go back to graduate school and offering to help out with finances – no strings attached. Three guesses which of my parents I remember more fondly with respect to this (and most other things, but that’s fodder for another discussion). Apparently I am not alone in carrying resentment cross the decades, as @3girls3cats can attest.

The schools that the OP was looking at were not ones that give merit aid. If the parents knew they would not qualify for financial aid, they should have encouraged their son to look at schools that would give merit. If he has the stats to get into Princeton, I’m sure he could have gotten some generous merit elsewhere. Obviously, at this point, merit is off the table, but he does have some mighty fine options. Berkeley is a great school and, unless money were truly no object, it would be hard to justify passing up Berkeley’s EECS or UCSD’s CS or UCLA to pay full freight for a private university. (Mind you, schools like Princeton, Harvard, Yale or Stanford make it harder still). If Berkeley (or another UC) does not have programs that your son is interested in or if they are truly a terrible fit, that’s a different story.

We are trying to be as transparent with our daughter as possible. She understands that we have an exhaustible supply of funding that can be used to help pay for a variety of things, including her undergraduate and graduate studies, travel and study abroad, and possibly helping her with a down payment on a house or apartment someday, and funding our retirement. She knows that if we have to pay full freight for an undergraduate education, there won’t be as much left over for grad school and everything else coming down the pike, and that we, as a family, will continue to make financial decisions based on numerous factors.

For this reason, we are encouraging our daughter, a junior in high school, to cast a wide net that will include one (or possibly more) reachy-reaches of the HYPS variety; a few equally reachy-reach full tuition or – better still, full ride scholarships – at several high-ranking private research unis and LACs (again, provided they have programs that are of interest to her, and provided they are good fits); several in-state publics (again, provided they have programs that are of interest to her, and provided they are good fits. We, too, are lucky that we live in CA and have some great public options); and a few safeties (both from a financial as well as from an admissions perspective).

We don’t anticipate that we will be getting any FA – we qualify from an income standpoint, but we have enough assets to not qualify for need-based aid (a good problem to have, I suppose). So we are doing our research and maximizing our options. When the offers roll in (and we hope there will be some good ones), we will figure out what makes the most sense. Does an HYPS at full pay make sense if there’s a full ride or full tuition someplace else she wants to go? Probably not. Does HYPS make sense if her best offer is a $10k merit from someplace she’s less excited about? Absolutely. Time will tell.

145

I want to do my part to make sure there isn’t all this scholarship money that goes unused.

If anybody has the inside tips on where to find all of this unclaimed scholarship money that is just sitting out there please share. I get emails from scholarship website for anything new that comes up but it seems like there are few that are really anything tangible that are way out off the beaten path and having to do something like land on the moon.

146

Here is a case against Princeton for CS @squeakywheel. A current student gives detailed reasons NOT to go to Princeton for CS. Maybe it will get you off the hook:
http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/princeton-university/1852776-princeton-president-likes-computer-science.html#latest

147

Similar to OP, we have been frugal and saved for our children’s education and we are full-pay (only in the eyes of colleges). Also like OP, we told the kids from a young age to work hard and we will support their education. Thank goodness, I started reading CC when DS was about 9th or 10th grade and quickly learned that there are so many more factors to consider than simply saying “work hard and don’t worry” like we did. So we started to explain to our kids that we need to cast a wide net and evaluate the whole picture based on the final offers in terms of quality of education, fit, career goals, and equally important finances.
The many discussions did pay off. When DS received his full tuition scholarship offer from one of the schools (but before any IVY’s notifications), he said immediately: “I guess I am not going to an Ivy.” I was pleased that DS made the decision to go with merit $. We then told him that our money saved will still be there and will be available for his graduation or med school.
I suppose I don’t have any different suggestions than what already been said by many posters. For future applicants’ parents, this thread would be very helpful.
OP, I feel for you and hope you and your family will get to a decision that is best for your child and your family.

148

@LoveTheBard

Let me guess, some of those “assets” came from the dad you resent?

149

Just a quick counterbalance to the “save your money for grad school” chant- a 25 year old (or whatever age your kid makes the decision to go to grad school) has much more maturity and frankly, more options than the 18 year old.

Even med school- the legendary med school- loan forgiveness programs by the Federal government and by some states for providing care in under-served neighborhoods. Military service. MBA- one of my kids got an offer for free business school- and not fly-by-night online B school, but a top 5 program, full tuition plus living stipend. Don’t want to return to your employer afterwards to have the B-school loans forgiven? That’s on you- but a top performer at a big company has this option. Law School? I know a kid now at a top 10 law school who negotiated a fine but not generous merit offer at a better law school into a free ride from the law school she’s currently attending.

Vet school- well I guess I’ve never heard of free money for Vets. Masters in Education? Lots of programs to pay for those- especially for teachers willing to serve in urban areas.

PhD? If you aren’t funded, don’t bother. It’s a sign from the universe that you don’t have what it takes for the fellowships/post-doc’s/grants that are required to launch the career of a young scholar.

So my point is- evaluate undergrad on its own merits. There seem to be many more options down the road to pay for grad school.

Saving the tuition money for a down-payment? Apples and oranges in my book. Education is an investment in human capital and pays off forever. You are 25 and can’t afford to buy a house? Wait a couple of years.

150

Baylorpoly - The largest amount of aid by far is offered by the colleges themselves, and not from third parties. Look for the “percentage of need met” by each college. Also, look at whether a college offers merit aid for certain GPAs or test scores or other factors. Don’t be overly impressed by a college that widely advertises full tuition scholarships - but only gives out one or two a year.

For private scholarships, the easiest money is from local groups or through your own high school. There are some local groups that receive only a few applications because they are not widely known. You can also look at websites of nearby high schools to find scholarships that your own high school does not publicize. However, those local scholarships are often only for the first year and are for limited amounts ($200 or $300). It helps to schmoze your high school teachers and principal, because they often help decide who receives scholarships controlled by your high school. If you are awarded a few of them, that is a help, but it is the aid from the college that makes a place affordable.

Also, pay close attention to state college grants. Some are merit based and some are need based. In Pennsylvania, for instance, up to $4,000 a year is available in need based grants and $1,000 a year is available in merit aid. Many states do not allow their grants to be used at out of state colleges, or greatly reduce the amount of the grants if you go out of state. Some grants may be available for only in-state publics, while other grants can be used for in-state privates. The eligibility for those grants may be an important factor in considering whether to attend an in-state or out-of-state college.

151

By the way, because of budget cuts, many federal agencies no longer offer tuition reimbursement for graduate classes. One agency that still does is the FBI.

152

^^^I think this is what OP is trying to do, evaluate the BEST way to spend her money. Is Princeton the best way to spend $260k for a computer science major? Would her son get as good of an education at UCLA, benefit from all the honors programs and scholaships programs, and the parents wouldn’t feel the financial strain so much? Is P the right way to spend that money when there is another choice?

Part of parenting is showing the child the long term financial consequences. Some people always want the named brand, others would rather save the money but get the same product with the Sears name on it. Princeton has a good product, no question, but for this child, is it necessary and the best buy? Even on CC no one would fault the child for picking UCB over Yale or Michigan (see current thread by mother who wants Stanford, son wants the beach and girlfriend) so why question the parents for pointing their son in that direction if it could be a better fit financially? OP said the son was interviewing for several scholaships. Those might have their own level of prestige in the student’s future.

On CC we read daily that engineers should just go to the ABET schoolwith the best financial deal, don’t worry about the name on the school. Is Computer science all that different? Are there going to be secret programs only available at Princeton? Will the OP’s son not learn the most up to date programs if he’s not at a Princeton eating club shouting Go Tigers?

I hope everyone with offers is sitting down with their children deciding on the best school, the best offer, for that child and family. Distance, weather, cost, school colors - whatever. Is school A with honors a better situation than school B with the family legacy? The Val one year at my daughter’s school chose Santa Clara over Harvard and Dartmouth. Why did he even apply to those Ivy schools if Santa Clara was going to be his choice? Because he wanted a choice, wasn’t sure when applying what would be the best deal for him (money really wasn’t an issue), because he was also considering a sport. Or maybe his dad made him apply?

153

Actually, there are two different issues here:

  1. Does Princeton (or one of the ten other comparably expensive schools) provide value worth the extra cost over one of the in-state UCs for a CS major? (the question above)
  2. How does the OP handle the problem that s/he put himself/herself in by saying during application time that "Money is not a factor in the decision" and promising to pay for whichever college the kid gets into and encouraging/approving an application list that is heavily weighted toward expensive schools (three in-state UCs and eleven expensive schools), but now not wanting to pay the expensive school price when the kid's first choice is an expensive school to which he has been admitted (early action)?

There are probably many posters here who would say that the answer to #1 is “no”, but the answer to #2 is not going to be an easy one (unless the OP gets lucky and the kid decides that an in-state UC is now his first choice). Most would say that the question of #1 should have been evaluated before application time, and the parents should tell the kid the price/value constraint before application time, so that the kid can make a suitable application list, instead of one that is mostly wasted and will lead to the let-down described in this thread.

Such constraints are best discussed before application time. Even if the exact limitations are not specified, it is best to avoid overpromising (e.g. “Money is not a factor in the decision”) when one may have to back out of such a promise later.

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@phunt01810 - Indeed, some of our assets did come from money I inherited from my father. More, however, came from my mom, whose generosity of spirit, kindness, and compassion thankfully outweighed my father’s mean-spirited, narcissistic behaviors. My mother was frugal but selfless; my father was a cheap, verbally abusive drunk. (And some of our assets came from my equally frugal-yet-magnanimous mother-in-law’s untimely demise; before her passing, we had positioned ourselves in such a way that we might have qualified for need-based aid by maximizing retirement savings, paying off our mortgage, etc.)

Wouldn’t it have been nice if my father were to have realized that he wasn’t going to be able take it with him when he went and that he was going to reap what he sowed when he was alive?

I’d like to think that my daughter will remember us fondly when we are gone, and think that we – for the most part – did right by her (and that she will forgive us for the times we didn’t).

None of this is to criticize OP’s choices, just to point out that - barring changes in their financial picture and/or a huge miscalculation on their part - I’m seeing a bit of bait-and-switch going on.

155

I think they should wait to tell him until after they take him on the tour of Princeton. Rub some salt in that wound.

That’s the current plan, right? (holds up sarcasm card with ludicrously appalled look on her face).

156

I feel for you, and my post is not intended to make you feel bad, but to emphasize your point that actions can have lasting consequences.

For reasons that don’t matter now, I went to college early, before graduating high school. My first year at college, I was a disaster; the courses that I didn’t drop, I didn’t do very well in. Over the summer, my father told me that he knew I could do better, and wrote out a check for the next year’s tuition without an ounce of harshness. He was not a rich man, but he believed in education and he believed in me. I think every grade from then on was an A or an A-, because I wasn’t going to put him in this position again. This display of unconditional love and trust still moistens my eyes 48 years later, and sets the standard for behavior I expect of myself with my own children.

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@LoveTheBard Sorry about your dad. You are very fortunate to have gained three inheritances.
It is nice that in their passing, they can still help the education of their grandkids:)

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@IxnayBob, that is really lovely.

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This has been a fascinating thread to read on many levels. Some good and some bad. Some pretty harsh opinions and for that I am sad.

I do think it is unfair to assume that simply because someone doesn’t qualify for need based aid means they can afford full pay. 250K is plays out very differently depending on where you live. It could allow for tremendous savings, college and otherwise, or considerable less in higher cost of living parts of the country. It certainly does not allow us, with 4 to put through college, to remotely consider those kinds of price tags per child.

We may look “on paper” as if we could afford an ivy tuition. Or tuition anywhere according to FAFSA. Nothing could be further from the truth, nor is it how we would choose to spend our money. But that is us, differing perspectives aren’t wrong, they are just different. Was due diligence on costs truly not done? Was it understated/underestimated or incorrect assumptions about awards merit made? Who knows but at this point it is what it is, and how it is addressed on a go forward basis is what is important. It is a valid question, a valid concern, even if it is really late.

My deal with my two has always been this. I will pay for our flagship in-state school. Anything beyond that, they have to figure out a way to finance. I will help them in every way possible to get creative in that area, find scholarships, etc but I feel strongly that skin in the game is a good thing. I financed all of my own UG outside of room and board. It’s a different financial commitment now and while I don’t want my children to have that full burden, I also don’t want to just hand them a blank check with no obligation, I personally think it does them a disservice.

I have 2 stepkids that had zero obligation to have skin in the game and got to pick wherever they wanted without any consideration to cost or alternatives. The recent graduate has yet to even LOOK for a job. I bite my tongue. A lot. A pricey LAC degree was not needed for that major and there is zero ROI to date. I realize that isn’t what we are talking about here but…again, a little bit of skin in the game (not to the point of true or real burden) can be a very motivational thing as well as solidifying how serious a child is about something.

Our youngest has many 50-60k schools on his radar. He has known since elementary school that I will support the application, the research, the relentless search for merit money to make those dreams happen but at the end of the day, I am not picking up the cost differential. Will he be disappointing if he can’t pull it off? Of course. But he will be ok and knows what he is getting into up front and frankly has nothing to lose by trying.

When it comes time, will I cover more than just our in state flagship? Yes. To a point. But it will be based on what I view as the return on investment and my child’s commitment and the rationale for choosing that school.

In the case of the OP and child, it would seem a compromise could be reached. Are scholarships being sought, work study, small loans? I understand interviews at the in-state options but see no mention of other options. Can some of that offset the difference? Or, is it a scenario where that is not palatable to even ask the child to do any of that. There are always options, you just may need to be creative. Does the child understand the ROI on his various options for the cost investment? Does he appreciate that at all? Only the OP and their family can answer that.

To me, saying you will pay for college, does not mean a blank check to anywhere they want. All options should be evaluated, pro’s and cons including cost and the best decision for all, agreed upon.

I do agree that whatever is done needs to be available for #2 and in all cases loaning to a family member is always a bad, bad idea.

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The big difference between your situation and the OP’s situation is that you have been up front with him (long before application season) about cost limitations, rather than leading him to believe that you will pay full price and encouraging applications to expensive schools without regard to cost and then getting cost conscious when it is too late to change the application list. Your kid will make an application list with cost limitations in mind, and know that admission without enough scholarships or financial aid is equivalent to a rejection, unlike the OP’s kid who was encouraged to apply to mostly expensive schools without realizing that most of them will later be unavailable due to cost limitations that the OP just now decided to impose.