Need Help Balancing College List Please

College Search & Selection
1

I am looking for college suggestions for my HS junior.

  • Caucasian female from New York State
  • 4.0 UW (97.6 average)
  • Top 10% (school doesn't rank beyond that)
  • Anticipated NMF
  • 1500/1520 PSAT
  • She got 5s on her three AP tests last year in grade 10
  • Taking ACT/SATs over next few months.
  • Very involved in typical ECs with leadership roles
  • Plays in-demand orchestra instrument at a high level (maybe this could be a tiny hook?)
  • Unsure of career path, but possible majors include math, comp sci, and maybe economics.

Her wish list for college qualities:

  • Urban (might consider suburban, but not interested in rural)
  • Right now focusing on schools in NE, California, DC, and Chicago, but will consider other locations
  • Really wants to play in quality college orchestra as a non-music major
  • Medium to large (prefers unis to LACs, but will consider LACs like Claremont Colleges)
  • Would prefer being a regular fish in a big pond
  • She’s a serious student who also likes to have fun; she gets along easily with others.

Finances: Professional parents at or close to full pay. It would be great to have some possible merit aid schools on her list in addition to the reach schools that don’t offer merit.

D is seeking prestige. I have been talking up fit. I prefer LACs for their focus on undergrads and quality of teaching, but she’s the one going, not me, right? She is starting to understand that with no hooks, even her great stats are unlikely to get her into Stanford and other lottery schools. But she can’t seem to stop dreaming.

Colleges she likes so far:
Stanford
Columbia
Harvard
MIT
Caltech
Berkeley
Northwestern
Harvey Mudd
Pomona
Brown
Georgetown

When I asked her for safeties, she suggested Fordham and GW. I’m not sure I would call them safeties even with Fordham’s NMF scholarship. She doesn’t see the SUNYs as desirable. Suggestions for safeties?

What about some solid or even high matches? I would like to avoid having her be one of those students posting next year about being closed out of everywhere.

Merit aid school suggestions are welcome as well (she isn’t really taking my suggestion of U of Alabama seriously).

Thank you!

2

I would look into Tufts, Northeastern, BC, BU, Villanova, Drexel (safety, but they give a lot go merit aid),

3

I would add Vandy, Rice, Wash U. and USC to your reach list, and Lawrence and Oberlin to your matches (but they are LACs and rural).

4

OP, agree that’s a lottery list for all. How about schools like Emory, Lehigh, Michigan, Rochester, UNC, UVA, Wake Forest, Wash U, W&M? Also, maybe some of the larger LAC’s like Bucknell and Richmond?

5

Tufts, Barnard, Emory all come to mind. You might want to check out Macalester, which is smaller but urban (leafy neighborhood ) and may give merit aid. She may want to take a look at the Quaker consortium schools, especially Haverford and Bryn Mawr. I suspect they are too small but if the Claremont consortium made the cut, they may as well.

6

UNC and UVA are difficult to get merit from, unless you apply to be a Robertson/Morehead-Cain Scholar for UNC or can be nominated for the Jefferson at UVA.

With her stats, it’s likely she will end up being a NMF and, if admitted, she will get 1/2 tuition at USC and possibly be considered for full tuition.

Haverford won’t give merit, but Bryn Mawr will. Also, if you’re planning on being on the merit train, forget the ivies, GTown, Pomona, etc. etc. In fact, the only one on your list that might give merit is Harvey Mudd.

All of the schools I mentioned (Rice, Wash U., USC, Vandy, Oberlin, and Lawrence) have strong music programs and give merit for tippy-top stats.

If she’s not in CA, Berkeley doesn’t make a whole lot of sense. Also, looks at Univ. of Rochester – they give merit and are affiliated with Eastman School of Music. Emory and Richmond are good safeties and possibly good merit options. Northwestern is not a merit option, but they do give some music scholarships and have good programs.

7

Thinking outside the box…consider McGill University, Toronto University or University of British Columbia. They all have great CS programs and highly ranked schools. Lots of those graduates work for the big tech firms. Friend in Canada looking at those schools and HYP+S.

8

Thank you to all for the suggestions! I will have her look these over and see what she thinks. I’m grateful for the new sets of eyes looking at this and offering other possibilities we hadn’t thought to consider.

@gr8pl8 - I hadn’t considered Canadian schools. I’ll ask her to take a look.

@LoveTheBard - Yes, OOS tuition for Berkeley seems a bit crazy. Great school, but I hear talk of difficulty of getting into classes, and huge ones at that (at least for two years), and I wonder if it’s worth paying that much. She actually was considering Oberlin, but it’s too hard for non-conservatory kids to get a spot in the orchestra, so she dropped that school. USC looks interesting. I thought URochester would be good, but we didn’t have the best experience there on a tour/info session, so that one dropped off the list. Do you really think Emory and Richmond would be likely admits?

9

D was accepted to USC with NMF…even at 1/2 tuition it is expensive. Much more then UCB if I remember right.

10

Your daughter has a great shot all all the school she likes. Get in touch with the regional admit officer for Stanford and show a lot of interest in the school early. They have a lot of say on who gets in and not. D was accepted and spoke with our regional during a local admit evening last Sunday. She loved what my daughter wrote on her essay and fought to have her gain acceptance. Your D’s stats are almost the same as mine except we are Asian-Americans.

11

@gr8pl8 - The COA for OOS at Berkeley is over $60K (instate is around $35K) and the ability to graduate in 4 years is can be compromised by difficulty getting classes; A half-merit at USC would put COA at around $45K and OP’s DC might have a shot at full merit.

My D never contacted the regional admit officer and was accepted to Stanford. I’ve actually not heard of anyone contacting Stanford regional officers and there are no interviews being offered in CA. Stanford does NOT take interest into account. They also do NOT offer merit aid, which is one of the things OP is seeking.

I think that for admissions Emory and Richmond are matches/safeties. Big merit is a reach for everyone. But your D has great scores, so she may be quite competitive.

I wouldn’t disconsider Rochester – it might be worth a second look. I’ve heard very good things about it.

12

@gr8p8, I think your advice on how to navigate the admissions process is terrific. Congratulations to your daughter. I disagree, though, with the statement, “Your daughter has a great shot at all the schools she likes.” The OP’s daughter appears qualified for all the schools but that does not equal acceptance. All of these schools have RD admit rates in the low to mid single digits, or not much higher (counting UCB as OOS). A large majority of applicants will be well qualified. So something like 10% of applicants like the OP’s daughter will be accepted into most of these schools.

One of our first college visits with my oldest was at a top LAC. The AO at the info session said 70% of applicants were fully qualified to attend, and admissions was confident could attend and succeed academically and otherwise. The school admitted 14% of applicants (that number is lower today), so 1 in 5 of the fully qualified applicants (in the school’s view) were not accepted. That struck home, and the situation has only become more challenging over the last decade.

A student with the above stats could easily apply to all the schools on that list and not receive one acceptance. You can read similar stories all over CC, especially in recent years. The student could just as easily be accepted to one or several. It’s just very hard to know if the entire application will shine in a sea of outstanding applications.

To the OP, great thought to find some match schools and some where your daughter can get merit aid. Also maybe you can find some info that lets your daughter know HOW you go to school is more important than WHERE you go to school. There are amazing people at many, many schools–students and faculty. Embracing that. Working hard. Having fun. Being positive. Treating everyone with kindness and respect. Those are the things that will make her successful. She’s clearly bright and hard working and will go to a “good” school. I hope she enjoys the process. Good luck!

13

Hey @TTG & @LoveTheBard. Great points. My D’s stats about even or maybe a little lower junior year with OP. We never contacted Stanford before the application. Didn’t think she would get in. Knowing what I know now that the regional AO has great freedom to really get behind a applicant…take advantage of human nature to be comfortable with people you have associated in the past.

D got into some other great schools (Pomona, Rice, Amhurst, UCB, UCLA, USC) but was rejected by Yale, UPenn (wait listed Harvard) and high ranking LAC’s in the East Coast. It is a crap shoot when 99% of the applicants are top 5% in their HS. Even if Stanford or Columbia, her two choices right now, didn’t offer any FA, we would have sold our house to make it happen. Money comes and goes, but a Stanford or Columbia education for your flesh and blood does not.

Many friend’s kids we have seen grow up have gone to UCB, fifteen last count. It is difficult to graduate in 4 years. Many go in knowing that they will graduate in 5. Almost genius kid that won multiple CA math competitions is a freshman attending, he can’t keep up with the work and now wishes the would have gone to UCLA. It might be the same at both schools but he would have home support here in SoCal.

Great points and like the conversation. Very enlightening.

14

Thanks again to all.

While I’m pretty sure my daughter has the ability to do well at these tippy top schools, I am just concerned that without a hook she will look like all of the other high stat kids and be denied, just as @TTG mentioned. She’s white, she’s from NY, she’s not an athlete… Yes, she plays an in-demand instrument, but these schools with thousands of students may already have the musicians they need. She might have a slight advantage at tech schools as a female applicant. However, all of the kids who have gotten into ivies and other top schools from our public school district over the past two years have had something that made them stand out, whether it was a national science award, URM status, success creating an app, recruited athlete status, etc.

So, I really appreciate the matches you have offered: Rice, USC, Emory, Vandy, WashU, Lehigh, Michigan, Tufts, Northeastern, BC, BU, Villanova, UNC, UVA, Wake Forest, W&M, Canadian colleges. However, some of these strike me as being more like high matches, don’t you think?

And then the low matches/safeties: Drexel, U Rochester, Lawrence.

Do you think she can call Fordham and GW safety schools? Or are they more like low matches?

15

@Silverkey, you are asking great, important questions. I don’t mean to be a negative nelly, just the schools on the original list have such low, low acceptance rates that it is true that many qualified applicants can get shut out, even if applying to several. Not to say that I think that would be the case for your daughter. It’s really nothing like a few years ago. Again, though, your daughter has really impressive credentials and will do well.

Yes, Rice Vanderbilt, WashU, and UNC/UVA (OSS) in particular will also be challenging, though your daughter would seem to be on her way to being competitive. I posted on another thread that Vanderbilt’s 25/75 ACT range has increased from 28-32 in 2006 to 33-35 in 2017. It’s not an exact apples-to-apples comparison but gives some idea of the challenge. WashU is really focused on test scores and interest. A visit is really important and so is an interview if that is possible for you.

Some of the other schools (BC, Villanova, etc.) would be more likely if your daughter’s SAT/ACT scores were comparable to her PSAT, and she continues to excel inside and outside the classroom.

Also, I advise taking advantage of ED/EA IF (a big IF) your daughter is ready to commit to a school (ED). I think it helps in particular at some schools, like WashU. There is also a trend for schools to accept a higher % of each class in the early rounds. For example, Wake Forest increased the % of students taken ED from 40% of the incoming class the last few years to 55% this year. I’m not sure I can say that is typical, but it is at least something of a trend. Obviously that makes things more difficult in the RD round. Your daughter can submit as many EA applications as she likes, unless she has early to a handful of elite EA schools that have various restrictions on other applications. Many state flagships offer EA, and the number of applicants has really spiked in the last few years at Georgia, Georgia Tech, UVA, Michigan, UNC, Wisconsin, Washington, etc. High-stat students often apply to some of these schools along with an ED school.

I certainly don’t want to add any stress. It should really be about finding a good fit–the right location, the right size, the right vibe, the right academic programs, the right price, etc. Again, your daughter is going to go to a great place, that’s for sure. She just needs to shop around for some that fit nicely, including a few that are very realistic in terms of acceptance. If you know the end is going to work out (acceptance letter from a great place) then hopefully less stress can be involved, and it can be more of an adventure, and a way to learn about different places.

16

I would be very careful about considering URoch a safety or even a "low match." Their RD acceptance rate was about 25% this year. D, who had similar stats to OP's daughter two years ago (3.8/4.8 UW/W GPA, 34 ACT, 11APs with mostly 5s, leadership in 4+ ECs at a large suburban public high school) said the incoming class (2021) had "upped the game" and that she would not have felt as confident of an acceptance this year as she did just two cycles earlier.
17

For safeties, I would look to your state schools. Private schools can and do reject high stats applicants for yield protection and because they are not the right fit and because they have way more applicants than they have spaces.

18

Emory isn’t a safety (one comment said that) and I don’t think a few of the matches you listed are really matches (Rice, WashU, Vandy, etc)

19

Pitt would be an urban school with admission being a safety and merit a possiblity.

UMDCP would be a suburban achool with metro access to DC that also has chance at merit.