<p>Brown is known for having the happiest student body. My son attends Brown and doesn’t drink. Undoubtedly there are those that do, but each student is able to chose what activities and events he or she attends.</p>
<p>Have a kid at Stanford now. There seems to be a lot of fun of all types going on there, and the Greek scene does not dominate campus life.</p>
<p>I have a friend whose son was a freshman at Yale last year. She said there seemed to be a lot of drinking, more than she expected.</p>
<p>well, my kid is not a partier, nor were any of his friends from high school. All very bright kids, one at Kenyon, 2 at carolina, 1 at harvard…all applied for wellness housing which has helped all immensely. I think you apply wellness whereever you get in, and also know these kids find each other on campus pretty quickly…</p>
<p>BYU is a very good school. You may find some groups you are really comfortable at Baylor in TX. Best of luck!</p>
<p>Hello to all that commented, advised, or wished me luck thus far. First, let me state that I am the mom of the student I am inquiring about. (When they first signed up for an account, we were under the impression that a shared home computer could only have one shared CC account). Secondly, I am not seeking (nor do I opt to engage in) a discussion on whether I am either naive, or overly-confident of my child’s ability to gain admission to one of our country’s top universities – let alone more than one. I am simply asking you to “suspend your beliefs” in this regard and go with me on a “hypothetical journey” if you will, that if one was to “assume” a student was accepted to – ALL Ivy League or comparable colleges (again, just for discussion/argument’s sake) what advice would you offer to my initial question? (Btw, thank you to the few of you that “defended” me from others who may have been “put off” by my question).</p>
<p>Maybe I should explain my concerns/question further: Simply put, I was also a “non-partier” – meaning non-drinker – not that I dislike a good party. (Who truly dislikes a party??) :-)) – ok, I’m sure there are SOME (no need to comment on that‼) BUT I attended a school that had superb academics (no, not an Ivy League one), but also based its social life about 99% on Greek life. I grew up in a time where there were no computers, no internet, no CC, guidance counselors were of virtually no help, and I simply didn’t know any better and ONLY looked at the school’s wonderful academic curriculum – and truth be told, it was a LOUSY fit and I was miserable! My child is different than me, but similar in that they simply don’t like alcohol or the “atmosphere” that drinking generates or is found in - obviously, we realize one can attend a “drinking party” and sip water. (And no, we are not religious zealots, and no, again, NOT naive – I fully understand college students – many, or maybe the majority, do drink, but my child has voiced to me and to others that this is simply not an atmosphere they feel comfortable in.) So, given my own college experience offered no alternatives to Greek parties (ie: drinking until people passed out), what current alternatives exist and are these other “social options” more prevalent at some mainstream (again, NOT religious or military or all one gender) colleges than others? And MOST IMPORTANTLY, which ones? </p>
<p>Thank you to all have voiced their opinions and to those that will do so now. I have no inclination to argue the merits of the advice – I will leave that to those of you with the experience of having already had at least one child in college!</p>
<p>oldmom4896 - do you know if your friend’s son drank himself, and if not, did he feel uncomfortable in that atmosphere? Or did he find alternative social activities?</p>
<p>elle232 (or anyone) - I am not familiar with the term “wellness housing” - can you explain? </p>
<p>And I guess my concern about joining a “substance free dorm” (if that is what it is) as a freshman is that I don’t like labeling someone, especially early on, and I would be concerned that those who either “self-labeled” or self-selected to be in these dorms may either 1) be labeled as anti-social by others or 2) ARE they potentially more “independent” - less social - more quirky? Or are these stereotypes that are simply untrue? (oh, I bet this could be a thread in itself, lol)</p>
<p>compmom - clearly, I don’t think one should “segregate” themselves from everyone who drinks (casually), any more than they should segregate from everyone of a particular ethnic group or religion, or who listens to jazz, etc. – but you can associate with “drinkers” in situations when they are SOBER - just like I need not attend jazz clubs on Saturday nights just to be friends with someone who loves jazz. And I don’t need to attend mass if I am of a different religion (but I can still be friends with those that attend!) However, I hope there are opportunities to find (ample) activities in the evenings or weekends for students at the college I am seeking where non-drinkers could go and have a good time! I just don’t know which colleges best exemplify this ideal…</p>
<p>Does this make sense?</p>
<p>College Alum 314 - you wrote:</p>
<p>“Regardless of the school, the best bet is to not join a fraternity or eating club if you want to avoid the drinking culture.”</p>
<p>Did you or your kids attend a school (presumably Princeton) that had an eating club that makes you certain about your statement? I am asking sincerely as I have heard people say that one can join and belong to an eating club and use for meals, studying, foosball, some parties (like lawn parties, etc) but NOT have to participate in the more rowdier (ie: drinking) events. Is this NOT true? I thought, unlike frats which often “force” their members to attend things like pub nights, that the “eating club culture” was more open to various types? Was someone fibbing when they told me all this? Again, I am asking genuinely as I don’t know the true answer, but would like to.</p>
<p>^No, I went to MIT, which has frats. </p>
<p>From what I’ve heard, most of the wild parties take place at the Eating clubs/finals clubs at Princeton and Harvard, respectively. So if you were hoping to avoid that, it might be best to not join them to avoid the drinking culture. I think non-members might still be able to attend the parties.</p>
<p>I defer to people who actually went to Harvard and Princeton.</p>
<p>lifelearner–what you are looking for does not exist and I think that is what people are trying to tell you. Even the so called “dry campuses” will have partiers. Your son will find like minded students where ever he goes. He can choose to participate or not. Our oldest went to a state schools known for it’s parties. He attended the parties but did not drink and made a lot of spending money as the designated driver for his friends that did. They thought it was great that he went but didn’t drink. It doesn’t have to be an issue unless your child makes it one.</p>
<p>As for only selecting top schools, it isn’t a matter of “fit” so much as it is about the 4-6% acceptance rates at these schools. There is story after story after story on these boards of kids that only apply to these schools that find themselves taking classes at the local community college because they didn’t get into ANY school. We know of one kid, 2390 SAT, 35 ACT, #1 in his class, got into one school out of 10 and only because of legacy status at that one school. A very large percentage of students on this board or children of parents on this board have the “stats” to get into every Ivy, but only 6% of them will.</p>
<p>lifelearner – I can’t speak to the Ivy League, but I am familiar with a lot of schools in my state and surrounding states (public, private-religious, and private-nonreligious). There are certainly schools that have more of a reputation for drinking than others. Asking about schools’ reputations is a good start, but there are other things that your daughter can consider doing. I know many students (my children included) who want to avoid being around people who are drinking/drunk. These are the things that some of them have done:</p>
<ol>
<li> Attend a university with a strong current (not just historical) religious affiliation. Drinking is generally not (I did not say never) as much of a problem in those schools. The quality of education, just as with public universities, varies.</li>
<li> Attend a college with a smaller Greek presence. This almost always helps with alcohol problems. However, some schools with little or no Greek life have a reputation for drugs.</li>
<li> Live in substance-free housing. For almost everyone I know who has done this, it has been a godsend. Substance-free housing is sometimes called “wellness” housing, because it also emphasizes healthy eating and exercise – pulling in more athletically-oriented people. Some “wellness” groups go on camping trips, field intramural teams, or sponsor/run in 5Ks.</li>
<li> Live in honors housing. These dorms/halls are generally much quieter, and the students are more likely to be up at 2 am talking about political philosophy than out somewhere drinking.</li>
<li> Join a campus religious community or service organization. Students involved in these groups are usually focused on something other than partying, or they’re doing service projects on the weekends. They also meet other people with whom they have more in common.</li>
<li> Find a roommate who shares one’s values. Some colleges have Facebook pages for finding roommates, and there are also roommate finder websites. I’ve known people to find roommates using both of these methods, and they’ve generally been very happy.</li>
</ol>
<p>Often, college students who expect the worst are pleasantly surprised to find that there are many other students who do not drink. Best wishes to your daughter!</p>
<p>Lifelearner, what I was thinking about was the many pleasant evenings passed by my daughter at an Ivy, when her friends were drinking but not really to excess, and she sat on the couch, maybe reading, and interacting, and a lot of laughing was going on.</p>
<p>As a person who cannot drink or for that matter, smoke marijuana, for medical reasons, she did end up being the go to person for problems related to those activities, such as a peer who could not make it back to his room.</p>
<p>I do feel her social options would have been severely limited if she had only socialized when no alcohol was around. I just think we shouldn’t assume that all alcohol is used for bingeing and getting drunk. Of course, a lot of that is going on, and once her friends became boring, I think she just went to bed.</p>
<p>She went to a few parties at the private clubs, but did find that scene pretty awful. Women have a lot to deal with when guys are getting very drunk, at big parties: harassment doesn’t begin to cover it.</p>
<p>So I am talking about smaller gatherings in dorms. </p>
<p>Many of the students in substance-free dorms have had problems in the past and are in recovery.</p>
<p>What are wellness dorms? Never heard of such a thing at my daughter’s college, and she has accommodations for her living space due to health conditions. So you’d think we would have heard of a wellness dorm.</p>
<p>compmom–we’ve come across several “wellness dorms” or floor at the various schools we’ve visited. It’s just another living community like substance-free floors, etc. Generally they are students that want a supportive environment for exercise and eating well, at least the ones we’ve seen. They aren’t always substance free housing though in our experience.</p>
<p>compmom – You may have read my above post by now (I was probably posting it while you were writing yours), but I’ll elaborate on “wellness” housing.</p>
<p>Wellness housing usually, at least in schools in my state, emphasizes overall health. It incorporates substance-free, exercise, healthy eating, and sometimes “spiritual” (not specifically religious) wellness – meditation, for example. It tends to draw students who are highly motivated to live a very healthy lifestyle, especially students who like outdoor physical activity. They may go on camping trips, go hiking, or cook healthy foods together. So, there’s very much a social element. It takes an extra level of commitment and sometimes requires an application that includes an essay about why healthy living is important to that student.</p>
<p>Neither of my kids drink, neither attended Ivies. I went to Harvard. Drinking is at every school, but if frats (or their equivalents) are less than 20% or so of the student population, they do not have a huge effect on the culture. There will still be drinking, don’t get me wrong, but I don’t think there’s a huge amount of pressure to be drinking, and there are alternative activities. My older son was at Carnegie Mellon, and I know for a fact, that you could be a non-drinker at at least one of the frats. My younger son has found plenty of non-drinking friends at Tufts. When I was at Harvard, most of my friends drank some (drinking age was 18 then), but no one would make you drink. All the studies show that there is the least amount of drinking at urban colleges and ones with older students. (Generally non-residential community oriented colleges.)</p>
<p>Wellness dorms are sometimes called quiet dorms, substance free, or similar. How much they focus on “wellness,” in general, depends on the school. For some schools, the web sites will include info about these options. You can also call and ask, without raising eyebrows.</p>
<p>I’m sorry of you felt any posts were edgy. There are kids who start threads, sometimes looking for superficial statements about colleges; it’s common to point them to a broader range of schools or suggest they dig deeper.</p>
<p>There is no Ivy or top school I can think of where you can perfectly avoid the partiers. Sometimes, you can glean more about certain schools by digging deep for their own reports on certain issues- eg, at one known LAC, the Greek scene was so bad they shut the whole thing down for a semester. It was the second time in around a decade, iirc. But, it would be unfair to continue to judge any school by a past situation. You can also go over to students review web site- and look at some feedback from students, but those reviews can be very lopsided; you need to filter.</p>
<p>Imo, as a kid makes friends, the options increase. When the dorm seems to be partying, friends take advantage of other options. Not always fair, no. Sometimes, a freshman not interested in the parties can change to a quieter dorm-- this is one of the vast improvements since we parents were in college.</p>
<p>mathmom–that is my experience too, there were plenty of parties but no one MADE you drink. Sure, they offered, if you declined they usually said there is water and Pepsi in the fridge and moved on. I didn’t, and still don’t, like beer so I didn’t drink at most parties in college, attended plenty of them but mainly because they were just fun-lots of music, dancing and just fun people. We also went to movies, concerts, sporting events, lectures, plays, etc. I knew plenty of kids that were “binge drinkers” way back when, it wasn’t called that then, it was just called getting drunk. Most kids at parties or even at the bars had 2, maybe 3 drinks in an evening. I think the whole “binge drinking” scene has been blown out of proportion by the media personally.</p>
<p>Steve, if you read the local newspapers (not the campus papers, but the local town papers) of schools you are interested in, you can quickly ascertain that the binge drinking scene is NOT blown out of proportion. I went to college in the 1970’s as did all of my siblings (one was there in the 1980’s) and none of us can recall a classmate getting admitted to an ER for alcohol poisoning. Not once. None of us can recall a single alcohol related fatality. Several classmates died during our college years- plane crash, leukemia, a horrific car accident (weather, not substance related).</p>
<p>Our kids (mine plus the nieces and nephews) who were in college during the early part of the 2000’s plus the ones in now can all recite a litany of 911 calls… plus a few horrible fatalities all due to drinking. Kids falling off rooftops and balconies, a girl who choked on her own vomit, plus the run of the mill driving their car into a tree after a frat party.</p>
<p>The local papers often have a “police blotter” column which list in horrifying detail the ambulance runs, the police showing up at a frat party and discovering 15 year old girls so drunk they don’t remember how they got there, etc.</p>
<p>So OTOH, I agree you can avoid drinking at virtually any college. Go to parties but don’t drink. Or do something else fun in your free time. OTOH, I think the binge drinking is WAAAY more extreme than any of us remember. More drinking, more excessive drinking, younger and younger kids, much more emphasis on getting drunk and less on “enjoying a fine glass of merlot” with dinner.</p>
<p>Not to mention date rape and all the other horrifying behaviors that accompany binge drinking.</p>