<p>I have a son who will be applying to college this year. My older daughter went to Dartmouth and my older son went to Brown. I honestly would prefer that he would not go to either of those schools even though he is applying to both. My daughter felt that the Greek presence was pretty overwhelming at Dartmouth with an excessive partying atmosphere. She did enjoy her experience at Dartmouth, but would not recommend it for my son. She feels that the pressure to party is worse for the guys. And, my older son did notice a strong drug culture at Brown. I feel that the unstructured environment there is difficult for many kids to navigate.</p>
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<p>The maxim I have heard about Cornell is “easiest to get in, hardest to graduate.” I don’t know if the reputation for intensity comes from its prominent engineering school, though.</p>
<p>Speaking of generalizations and sterotypes, I have heard UPenn is highly pre-professional. I don’t know how that would impact the social scene.</p>
<p>As for Harvard, let me share with you one tidbit. It was the mid-90’s, and I was at a party at an MIT frat. Suddenly there was a circle of people around this one guy, who was “dancing.” I put dancing in quotes for a reason. What he was doing can best be described as the string dance that Conan O’Brien sometimes does during his monologue. Now mind you this was <em>before</em> O’Brien (a Harvard grad himself) started doing the string dance on TV. While he was dancing, he was telling various people that he went to Harvard. In spite of the dancing, the BU girls seemed to be impressed. </p>
<p>I guess that is how they dance at Harvard.</p>
<p>I haven’t read through all 9 pages of this thread but I want to add that, although Vanderbilt isn’t an Ivy and does have a very heavy Greek culture and lots of students drink, we saw that, at least in freshman year, there were quite a few who did not drink or go to the frats and chose instead to participate in the weekend activities provided to all freshman through the Freshman Commons dorms. For example, in my D’s dorm, the factulty head-of-the-house (each house has a faculty member who lives in an apartment in the dorm) had students over every Friday night to watch movies and sporting events, to play board games, to bake cookies, and to participate in all sorts of events. I think there was a rather large regular crowd that participated in these non-drinking events, which sometimes lasted until 2:00 in the morning, and I would think that they generated friendships that they will carry through their remaining years at Vanderbilt. This just goes to show that, at almost all schools except the teeny tiny ones, students can always find friends to hang out with to enjoy their own version of the college experience.</p>
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<p>Those $250K+ income parents are free to quit the jobs or donate the investments that make them part of the 2% wealthiest in our nation and take a minimum wage job. In that way they too can qualify for partial and full free rides and enjoy all the perks and benefits of being a member of the working poor.</p>
<p>(sorry for responding to a pretty off topic post. I just feel an obligation to point out that there is indeed a solution to this problem.)</p>
<p>^ I like that response. I’ll use it next time I see that complaint (which should be tomorrow here on CC).</p>
<p>Why does anyone need an “Ivy Fit” to begin with? The concept sounds so ridiculous in my head.</p>
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<p>Actually, the widespread rep among most elite college/Ivy alums I’ve met/known was that Cornell was the most intense Ivy in terms of academic workload and grading. </p>
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<p>That’s one of the phrases commonly bandied about even by some of the Harvard alums I knew who had siblings/relatives attending Cornell. </p>
<p>From their point of view and from comparing cousins’ experiences vs Harvard friends/colleagues’ accounts…seemed like the latter had more free time and/or far better time management skills. </p>
<p>As for causes, engineering is a part…along with drawing an enormous group of aspiring pre-meds.</p>
<p>FireandDrain, If I weren’t sick with strep right now, I’d likely respond in much more detail as I was actually sort of angered by what you said, or maybe it’s what was said “between your lines” that bothers me. But something tells me I would be hard pressed to either 1) change your opinion, or 2) sway you from thinking that however you personally raised your kids or your own ideals might be less than ideal, so I won’t even try. And I don’t know you nor your kids nor your ideals so I am not suggesting that any of those are imperfect; nonetheless, the implications of what you wrote troubles me. </p>
<p>For example, where you wrote: “The bottom line is that most 20something professionals drink socially, and eventually high school students have to mature and figure out how to fit into this culture.” – First of all, maybe I am misinterpreting what you said, but it sounds like you believe someone MUST consume alcohol to meet social norms and “fit in”. Let me tell you, that SOME HIGH SCHOOL STUDENTS ARE MORE MATURE THAN MANY COLLEGE ONES AND EVEN MANY ADULTS THAT I KNOW. Not all – but some. Also, students or adults do NOT need to EVER drink to “fit in” or be social or successful. Neither my husband nor I drank in college and we BOTH joined a sorority and fraternity at one point in our college days. (Does that surprise anyone reading?) We both had successful careers and many a business lunch where no one gave a darn if we ordered a glass of wine – or not. Actually, I only recall anyone even ordering an alcoholic beverage at an after-hours dinner meeting. But a better example might be “Donald Trump” who I think said he NEVER had an alcoholic drink in his life. If you raised your kids to think they had to “conform” in any way to “fit in”, that’s your viewpoint – but I know plenty of independent thinking kids (like mine) for whom peer pressure doesn’t sway their actions. At the same time, however, even independent thinkers wish to find a “good fit” and friendship with others – hence, the point of my question in this thread to begin with. </p>
<p>So, FireandDrain, exactly “what culture” do kids need to figure out how to “fit in?” And bending (their own preferences) and drinking to “fit in”, in MY opinion does NOT make students “mature” – but quite the contrary if that is the main reason they are drinking (or smoking, or swearing, or whatever…) And for the record, some people don’t drink simply because they don’t like the taste – not because they are standing on some moral high ground.</p>
<p>PS I should add that my sorority and fraternity experiences were over 25 years ago, and my child is a different person than me, so my question regarding seeking the best fit for them is really not germane to my own experience.</p>
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<p>It makes a lot more sense to me than applying to every school in the Ivy League just because they are in the Ivy League. I can’t imagine someone who really wants to be in the middle of a city being happy at Dartmouth or Cornell, or someone who wants to be in the great outdoors being happy at Columbia. But people do apply to all of them. I have never known why.</p>
<p>If a kid who has top-notch academic credentials wants to aim for some of the most selective schools in the country, it is not ridiculous at all to begin with the Ivy League schools, since they are certainly among the most selective schools. So it makes perfect sense to ask which among them seems the most suitable for a particular kid. Why not?</p>
<p>I imagine this student will also have other schools on his application list as well.</p>
<p>Pizzagirl - mmm…you noted that “being smart” doesn’t preclude someone drinking, and yes, that is definitely true, BUT I don’t think just “being smart” gets you to the Ivy League (assuming you are not in a special group like a “legacy”, etc) - I thought one also had to be VERY smart, dedicated to other interests either outside academic, or succeed at the Highest possible levels academically (ie: succeed nationally or internationally above their peers), or succeed athletically, etc. and I really would be surprised if many (or any) students that fell into these groups were “addicted” to alcohol or drugs while in high school and STILL managed to be that successful… am I wrong? Other posters??</p>
<p>Ok, SteveMA – I still won’t reveal my own college but I will send you the name (privately) of a school that I understand was (and likely still is) very close to the one I described. If you research it yourself (unless you already are familiar with it) I think you would have no choice but to admit it is the case. :-))</p>
<p>oops, my box is full. I will send to you once I clear out some messages- sorry. :-(</p>
<p>I would LOVE to get a “genuine answer” of what MOST students at Harvard do on the weekends or Thurs/Friday nights. I visited with my kid and asked several students what they did socially, and all I got was VAGUE answers like, “Oh, this and that”, and when I tried to delve deeper or more specifically asking if most went to parties or drank, all I got was, “oh, I guess some people have parites”… and I couldn’t tell if they 1) just didn’t want to reveal to an adult what REALLY occurred, or 2) If they simply didn’t HAVE much of a social life, because they actually seemed quite genuine, if not very forthcoming…</p>
<p>" I LOVE YOU" Desk Potato - and I don’t say that lightly nor because I am taking cold meds right now :-)) – maybe I should rephrase, I Love how you cite my own feelings so much better than I can communicate them in writing. May I ask if you are a teacher or writer of some kind? – you really have a knack of figuring out the essence of what one is trying to say - only saying it much better! Thank you! :-)))</p>
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<p>The Ivy League is a freaking SPORTS league. That’s all they have in common compared to other schools. Ivy worship is just ridiculous.</p>
<p>And I’m sure different kids at Harvard do different things with their weekends.</p>
<p>If you don’t want to drink, you can certainly avoid that at almost any university.</p>
<p>Oh, come now. Yes, it’s a sports league, but it’s not like the colleges in the Ivy League are not distinguished colleges. They’re ranked 1, 1, 3, 4, 8, 10, 15, and 15 in the recent USNews rankings. They have enormous endowments, distinguished faculty, and venerable histories, dating in some cases back to the 17th century. Sure, there are other good schools but it seems just perverse to insist that there is no reason to pay attention to the schools that make up this group. </p>
<p>I would imagine this young man is also looking at the other schools in the top 15 and trying to figure out which might be a good fit for him.</p>
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<p>Many undergrads tend to be reluctant to reveal where they go to party or have a drink in the presence of a parent…especially if they get the slightest impression the parent concerned will disapprove. </p>
<p>For starters, there’s the risk, however slight, that one meets with a puritanical type parent who’d not only lecture the other students on partying at all…but if drinking was admitted…actually turning the student in to face school/legal sanctions. Especially considering drinking is officially illegal for most undergrads who tend to be under the legal age. Not worth the risk as far as they’re concerned. </p>
<p>Some may also feel this is parental intruding into the domain that’s the sole domain of undergrads and other young adults. In such cases, your kid will probably only get an honest answer if he/she visits the campus without the parent(s). Moreover, some of these questions could be answered upon matriculation and is one good way for freshmen to bond with upperclassmen. </p>
<p>This mentality comes from young adults trying to establish independence and boundaries so they can start learning/continue practicing how to arrange/run their affairs without undue meddling/harassment from parents/authority figures.</p>
<p>^That could be true. It could also be true that the undergrads who were asked didn’t have a clear picture of what they do on weekends. Maybe they hang out with friends, or do whatever other people are doing that weekend. Doing random stuff on weekends may be hard to express when asked to list what their usual activities are.</p>
<p>^ ^</p>
<p>Not likely based on my experience with Harvard undergrads while visiting HS classmates on campus or taking summer classes with some of them. </p>
<p>While there’s the possibility of a few not having a good picture, that’s very out of character of most Harvard undergrads I’ve encountered. On the other hand, most of them would probably be suspicious of parents who asked them about partying habits, including if/where they drank. Especially if they have the slightest vibe the parent disapproves of it or worse, leans heavily toward the puritanical side. </p>
<p>Heck, many classmates…even near teetotalers like myself tended to be deliberately vague in answering such questions when it came from parents of current/prospective students if such parents/students weren’t already longtime friends.</p>
<p>I think most harvard kids spend their weekend plotting to take over Yale. They are all planning to take over something and so Yale seems a good starting point.</p>
<p>“I would LOVE to get a “genuine answer” of what MOST students at Harvard do on the weekends or Thurs/Friday nights”</p>
<p>The same things that 18-22 yos do at any school (except those schools that are highly religious). They go to parties. Many drink. They do other activities. They go on dates and have sex. Why would Harvard students be any different? They are 18-22 yos just like everyone else.</p>