Hello everyone. Recently I just got rejected from Notre Dame REA (100% expected) and Case Western EA. Bit of a bummer for Case, but I expected it too. I am looking for some additional schools to apply to RD now.
I have a 3.7 UW (8 APs) and 1440 SAT. PA resident. Asian male. ECs were mostly volunteering at a hospital, church, and library. Varsity swimming, tutoring. Some leadership.
I am most interested in a medium-sized school that’s in a good place to do pre-med: nearby hospital for volunteering, accessibility of research. It would be cool to stay in PA, but completely open to explore options on the Northeast. It would be nice to have some diversity (Asian).
Schools like Case would be optimal; URochester seemed like a good option, but felt like I need to EDII since I got rejected from Case and Rochester is closely competitive. I also toured Haverford and liked everything about it, besides that I have a small chance and it has a quite small population, but the other factors outweighed the size. So maybe somewhere like Haverford but bigger.
I talked to my parents and they said they would pay 50k for EFC. I ran the NPC for the schools mentioned above, and they all came less than the EFC. I applied to Pitt (no merit, expected) and Temple (Honors and 10k/year). Would love to go to Pitt as many have told me how nice it is for Pre-med, but parents would like me to EDII somewhere as the NPC for somewhere like Haverford, is 36k, which is around what Pitt would cost. So I would just like to know if there any schools that could get my interest.
I just wanted to mention that I said medium-sized because I found LACs to have a small population for my liking (social scene?) , but anything too big would make it kind of hard to have a good student-professor relationship. I am not very knowledgeable, though, so it would be cool to hear both sides.
So why do you need to ED? And why would you ED at a school you are not familiar with.
I understand they want you to save $$ - but going ED in this case is 100% wrong. And you need to find the right school for you (and not your parents). So avoid ED.
So the first thing is, there are many publics that pay well - and while they’re big, they have Honors Colleges. For many you’re too late - for merit and / or apps. But look at Alabama and Arizona - you’ll get great deals Also, Mississippi State and Arkanasas. For a smaller school, look at UAH (Alabama Huntsville). Also, Miami Ohio - but not sure of the merit deadline.
For mid-size - UAH as mentioned - but from a private POV, Elon (will be just over $50K), U of Denver, U of Miami (meets need) and then check the NPC for Lehigh, SMU, etc.
Frankly - Pitt is phenomenal and you have all the medical stuff there. You/your folks should be very happy.
With your #s, I would not have expected UND, Notre Dame and don’t know if you applied to Rochester either. I think your modeling is off.
If you are looking at Haverford - and that’s a huge reach for you - take a look at Macalester (reach), Bucknell, Lafayette (slight reaches), and Franklin & Marshall (but check the NPC - they only do need aid) and DePauw - lots of merit aid…that’s the type of match college for you. A Wooster and Allegheny would work well too for you.
I think Pitt is a great opportunity for you.
I wish you luck…but you do need to hit a level down and if you want merit aid to undercut Pitt, you need to go several levels down.
Good luck.
Maybe Univ. Miami for regular decision.
Pitt is great premed option and Temple, too.
Thanks so much for all the suggestions/advice! Yeah, I knew ND was going to extremely difficult, I applied just for the chance. I should have said Expected Rejection instead of just Expected, sorry for confusion. I heard EDII would give “some boost” in admissions, but I think I am wrong here. Thanks for the advice in ED. Haverford will probably be again too difficult, I just put it there as a basis for other suggestions. I haven’t applied to URochester, but am considering. Thanks for all the help again!
So - like anyone - you need reach, match, and safety.
And it’s ok to get rejected - in fact, I told both my kids, I wanted them to get rejected. If you don’t, then you didn’t apply “high enough”.
So applying to Notre Dame and Case are fine. They are good reaches - meaning, they’re not Harvard but they are still strong.
So I gave you some matches and safeties.
What your parents are seeking is a $50K or less.
So if you have need, Miami as @Hippobirdy suggested meets 100%. It’s not easy - you can run the NPC to see if it gets you to your #. Last year my daughter got $25K merit which puts you about $50K.
Anyway, don’t force something for your folks…find the right place for you - and it sounds like Pitt may be it. But if your folks really want to save - head South like so many are - and check out Alabama and UAH - you’ll go for cheap…but may not have the on-site options for medicine of Pitt.
Good luck.
You mention nearby hospital for volunteering and research opps. I realize this is not in the NE but have you looked at Rhodes College in Memphis? They have a partnership with St Jude and send a lot of students to med school. Your stats would but you in range, if not on the high end. I mention bc of your interest in Haverford. Also someone suggested Macalester in St Paul, MN. Because they are very urban I imagine they also have good opportunities.
URochester remains a great idea for your criteria.
If you might like a school with somewhat more students than Haverford, with higher admission prospects, look into Bates. If you would like to consider it, Bates places highly in this ranking:
Most schools don’t have a premed track. You know you can major in anything and still go to med school, right? You do have to do prerewu’s, and if not done in the college years there are psot-bacc’s, but there is a cost.
It sounds like public options are your best bet, especially in-state.
UMiami has a lot of opportunities for you and has an amazing simulation hospital along with the multiple hospitals in Miami where you could volunteer. They meet 100% need.
University of South Carolina, may tick some boxes and provide some great opportunities for you. You have missed some windows for early rounds of merit, but you would probably still be offered something.
There is a hospital with in walking distance of campus and a medical school and pharm school with additional undergrad research opportunities.
There is a strong Asian community in Columbia, SC and many are associated with USC.
You can be pre-med at just about every college in this country (arts conservatories excluded).
University of New Mexico might be an option. I believe you would qualify for the Amigo Scholarship and I don’t think that deadline has passed. Hospital right there so should be easy to shadow although many students do that in the summers and school breaks. I’m suggesting a scholarship place because it would be nice if your parents would let you use some of that money for medical school which is funded with loans, loans and more loans, and could be $100,000 a year by the time you get there.
Quite probably smaller and more rural than your ideal, but in PA both Juniata and Washington & Jefferson have good pre-med placement and could easily come in financially with your stats. Being smaller they are totally different types of schools than Pitt, but if you want to focus on med school, they might be better places for you than the larger, more competitive, places with a lot of high stat competition.
Med schools take the top students from all sorts of colleges. Your goal is to be in the top while still getting a high MCAT. 1440 isn’t high for Pitt or Rochester. This doesn’t mean you will “fail” at Pitt or UR. That will depend upon your effort. It does mean there will be more folks in the race for the top.
ETA LaSalle in Philly could be another to consider. They’re larger and in a city.
Hi,
I think Pitt is a great match and don’t think a 1440 SAT score would mean you would be overmatched. I understand for budget reasons but don’t necessarily agree with the logic of choosing schools where your stats put you at the very top academically to give an easier path to a higher GPA and finishing at the top of your class. There are reasons that schools are reaches, matches, and safeties. Being at a school like Pitt IMO you will be with more of your academic peers and be challenged but not overmatched.
Go to a smaller LAC where you can graduate at the top of the class. Much easier to stand out during med school admissions. It is much harder for asian students. Major in something not so typical (avoid biology, chemistry, etc).
If you are interested in PA colleges look at: Muhlenberg, Dickinson, Bucknell, York, Albright, Ursinus. You would be able to crush it, and probably get a nice scholarship too.
I was going to suggest this, too; PA is awash in fine LACs.
And I’d re-think Haverford; it’s got a superb record of graduates attending professional school-including medical school, and while it is small, you’d be able to attend classes in several different schools(eg Penn/Bryn Mawr, etc).
I don’t disagree on applying to Haverford - but the point here is that the OP got rejected at U of Notre Dame and Case Western and expected CWRU - but and we don’t know the entire picture, I would have thought rejected.
So Haverford (to me) is in the same pile - it’s a reach.
He can and should if desired certainly apply.
But - he needs to have that match and reach bucket filled as well and that’s where I tried to give him names (large, medium, and small) in the first email I wrote - #3. And others have since given more names.
He’s also looking to hit a price point and needs to look at NPCs to see if possible.
The point here is to find a name, he can get into, at leas expense than Pitt. I think a Depauw, Wooster, Allegheny could work in addition to the many others have given.
Never hurts to apply - but a Haverford is unlikely. And may or may not be affordable - he needs to see the NPC as there is no merit - so that’s why he needs to look at others too.
Puzzled by your response; it’s clear OP didn’t apply to Haverford so s/he wasn’t rejected. Is it a reach? Sure, but s/he’s already calculated the cost and it’s affordable. With its solid pre-health advising and proven track record for pre-med graduates, it’s well worth the application.
And the many PA LACs are all worth a look, but none would be guaranteed admission. For that, OP would need to apply to several of the state colleges, all of which are larger than they want.
So I’d recommend an application to Haverford, as well as to all the LACs which are mentioned by spo; if OP is willing to look further afield, there’s Washington College in MD, and many LACs in VA and NY.
I’m going off what I’ve seen from 20 years of teaching at our local high school. Obviously, one can’t see what the same student would do in each type of school, but students with similar stats and capabilities do better IME when they go to a school where they are in the top 10-25% of incoming students for both SAT/ACT and GPA.
I don’t think those with higher stats are necessarily smarter or “better” pre-med students. I think it’s the psyche in those incoming classes. When a student sits down in Bio or Chem 101 (pre-med weeder classes) and sees “all” the other students having an easier time with it than they do, they don’t instantly think, “Perhaps their foundation was more solid than mine, but I can catch up.” They tend to think, “Wow, they’re smart. Obviously I’m not med school material.” Then they give up. It’s the excuse I hear most often when kids come back and talk about what they are doing.
Similar students when they’re in the “better foundation” group to start with don’t get psyched out.
That’s my theory as to why it happens, because when they leave our school the two students could be exchanged for each other stats and “place in their class” status-wise.
Regardless of whether my theory is correct or not, that’s what I’ve seen IRL. Those in the Top 10-25% entering are far more likely to make it into med school.
YMMV
No - I’m saying he’s likely to get rejected by Haverford - that’s why my first sentence said I don’t disagree with him applying but:
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will it hit affordability - only he can tell us by the NPC - because he’s looking to beat $50K. and yes, as you mentioned, he did say $36K - so i missed that.
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It’s likely another rejection. That’s why i said I don’t disagree (with your opinion) that he should apply…but I’m simply saying - he needs to fill the match and safety buckets too - and really the safety if he’s looking for lower cost.
I 100% agree with what you said about Haverford if it interests the OP- just making sure the OP knows - it’s another reach.
that’s all.
We’ll agree to disagree; with its affordability for OP, Haverford is worth the application.