Need help forming a REALISTIC college list for an 'average excellent' student

Parents Forum
1

You’ll see from my username I’m new to posting, though I’ve been an attentive lurker for over a year. Our oldest DS went though the college acceptance process this year, and CC was very helpful in educating us all on the process. (He will be attending Lewis & Clark in Portland in the fall.) We’re working with our middle DS on forming a preliminary college list now (ending his sophomore year), and his stats very different, so we’re starting from scratch, list-wise.

A little background: we live in a rural area of the PacNW and DS goes to the best public high school in the area (which is to say, it’s still not as good as some publics elsewhere). We get little to no help from school guidance admin, and the vast majority of top students from our area attend the state flagship (i.e., not a lot of imagination there).

Here are the stats we have for him, and our list so far. What I’d like to know is, are there other schools you’d add? Any you’d take off?

Stats:
4.0 unweighted
on track to take 7-8 AP courses before graduation
taking max rigor for his school (AP and honors classes)
all 4s and 5s on AP tests so far
ranked #1 in class of 350 so far
has not taken SAT yet but PSAT score was in top 3% (national merit level, I believe, but he took it as a sophomore…will take it next year as a junior too)
ECs: varsity soccer captain (varsity team sophomore year and above), club soccer captain (on one of the top competitive teams in the state), school leadership team, founder of a school club (slap ball…nothing academic), in school outdoor adventure club, honor society, two years of debate team, soccer volunteer referee for local kids, lots of personal travel
Oh, and he’s a white male, significant financial need (his brother qualified for and got a lot of grant money from his LAC). I’m thinking his only ‘hook’ may be soccer, if a coach notes interest in him.

What he wants:
LAC: he wants a small college with interactive classes and group discussion, and does not know what he wants to major in yet. Rural preferred over city. He’s looking for DIV III because he’d like to try to play soccer (he will be contacting coaches next year). He’s a very good soccer player who receives PacNW college interest but I don’t think he’s so good that colleges from afar will seek him out. As noted, we live in the PacNW but he is focused on going to the northeast: anywhere from New England down to PA, or to California. He has generally ruled out schools in other geographic areas, simply because he has spent significant time in the northeast and can picture himself there. He is fairly liberal but more on the preppy scale than the hippy scale. Very self motivated and independent.

On the list so far:

(Unrealistic) Reach:
Pomona
Amherst

Reach:
Bates
Bowdoin
Colby
Hamilton
Haverford
Vassar

(Realistic?) reach or fit:
Connecticut College
Trinity (CT)
Dickinson
Clark
Oxy
(Whitman would be on this list but it was his brother’s dream school and he was rejected, so it would just be…ouch.)

Safety:
OSU honors (local flagship)
Willamette U

Our struggle is finding more academic fit options and realistic reach options. Right now, he is most interested in Colby and Bates. I am trying to convince him to add some midwest schools to the list, because for the right school, I think he’d expand his geographical boundaries. He’s adverse to larger universities (wants the LAC experience) so we are not currently looking at those.

I know CC will be honest. We are trying to be grounded in reality and I really want to find more ‘fit’ schools for him to focus on.

2

What kind of price limit? Potential major(s)?

Southern Oregon markets itself as a public LAC at http://coplac.org , but it seems to have both low admission selectivity and graduation rates, and a large number of students in pre-professional fields like business and education.

Other schools in that list that are not that expensive include University of Minnesota - Morris, and Truman State.

Some of the schools in these lists may be suitable. Check school web sites in case scholarships have changed.
http://automaticfulltuition.yolasite.com/
http://competitivefulltuition.yolasite.com/
http://nmfscholarships.yolasite.com/

3

Ok…he has a 4.0 unweighted GPA, and the potential to score high enough to be a NMF.

He is above average…sorry.

Wait until he has taken the PSAT in the fall. In addition…his ACT or SAT score will be a helpful addition. Until then, it’s a shot in the dark regarding college suggestions.

Division III schools are not permitted to give athletic scholarships. But that might help,with acceptance to a school that meets full need. Will he be a recruited athlete? Ask his soccer coach about this.

If he is interested in Colby and Bates…would he look at Lawrence? What about Oberlin?

4

If soccer is really going to be in the mix, it will change a lot. Some of the schools are sports powerhouses and his being a great player will matter in admissions. He would need to go to camps or tournament, probably this summer to start being noticed.

5

Look at the Colleges that Change Lives website. Loren Pope’s book was the original version but now there is a website and national fairs.

Midwest I would consider Oberlin, Kenyon, Macalaster, Carleton, Grinnell, College of Wooster; Southeast think about Davidson maybe; Northeast there are so many, and you have listed them for the most part…and you know the NW.

ps I don’t know anything about sports!!

6

I agree with thumper that his stats are thus far above average :slight_smile:

At a lot of schools on that list being male is an advantage, and if he is in fact recruited to play soccer that will help a lot as well. So the reaches may not be quite as reachy for him.

Soccer aside (if he’s recruited that’s a whole other thing), I’d focus on a “visit list” at this point since he has more than 2 years of HS left. You say he’s already spent time in the NE - was that at soccer camps or the like or just personal? If the former, has he formed some opinions about those colleges yet?

7

@ucbalumnus for finances, we can afford in the ballpark of $10K per year out of pocket (as parents) and are comfortable with $5K per year in loans for DS, so we’re aiming for a LAC that commits to meeting financial need or can get us into the $15K zone. In our experience with DS #1, that ended up do-able.

@thumper1 yes, we know Div III can’t give athletic scholarships…mostly I mentioned soccer because we’re hoping it could be a plus in the admissions side, should a coach want him.

8

Thanks for the ‘above average’ comments. Of course, that’s what I like to hear, but we all know there are so many talented kids out there! :slight_smile:

9

@OHMomof2 We have family in Massachusetts so we travel there once every few years, and have spent time visiting NE cities. He has not gone to a soccer camp there yet but we’re trying to make it happen. The only NE college he’s visited informally is Amherst.

10

For need-based financial aid, better to try the colleges’ net price calculators rather than relying on “meet need” promises.

For merit scholarships, look for at least full tuition ones. Note that a school where he is aiming for a full tuition scholarship should have reach/match/safety based on the scholarship, not admission.

11

Ok…hard discussion now. You can afford to pay $10,000 out of pocket…but really…that won’t matter to the colleges. They will compute your need based aid based on your income and assets. Honestly…what you thinkmyou can pay…really isn’t considered by the colleges.

Another very important thing for you to consider…when you have two students in college, your financial need will be based on that. Your family contribution at Profile schools will be 60/60…not 50/50. In other words…each of your kids will likely have family contributions of 60% of what the family contribution would have been for ONE kiddo.

Remember also, this will only apply for need based aid while,your kids are enrolled concurrently. When the older one graduates…the younger one will see a reduction in need based aid, most likely.

Your son sounds like a strong student. Perhaps look at some schools with guaranteed merit aid as well.

12

Thank you @thumper1 ! Absolutely, you clarified what I didn’t express well: for DS #1, our EFC was around 4K. He ended up with merit aid and grant aid to meet most of this need, but not all. For DS #2, we’re hoping he can get into a school that meets 100% need, but as @ucbalumnus notes, we will use net price calculators to get a ballpark. And I’d forgotten about the two kids in college thing. Thank you!

13

Run the NPCs with both the two in college and one in college scenarios to see what may change when the older one graduates. Also, if the older one is getting need-based aid, check the NPC for the older one’s college for the two versus one scenario to see if his aid may change when the younger one enters college.

14

It is early and your DS MIGHT change his mind re LAC vrs University [ mine did] so I strongly encourage you to think about adding U"s to his list that he can AFFORD to go to, because they offer big merit scholarships to NMF’s.
If his PSAT score puts him above the Wash qualifying #, then there are U’s that will pay him to attend.

dive into the links that ucbalumnus posted above.

15

Pertaining more to the body of your post than its title, Williams?

https://www.■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■/college-rankings/top-25-best-rural-colleges-2017-rankings/

St. Lawrence, which can be thought of as an East Coast Whitman, does match the thread title and could be a nice option.

16

^ St. Lawrence is a great idea. Not a “meet full need” school, however, you’d want to run the NPC (which you should do for all schools before they make the final app list cut).

17

With his academic stats and abilities he needs to be sure his choices include schools with high enough student stats so he will have the peer group he deserves. No matter how great his stats he can’t count on being admitted to the tippy top/most elite schools. Too many top students (he is way above most) and not enough places for them. He should consider your flagship because there will be top students like him in whatever honors program/college regardless of the majority of the student body’s stats.

Universities offer a lot that small schools can’t. Schools with Division 1 athletics often offer many club sports. He should look at those at various schools. There may be soccer leagues to satisfy his desire to keep up with the sport. I know in the running world CC and track club sport members go to competitions with D3 schools. Likely to be opportunities for soccer as well.

Too bad the Midwest is off his radar- I could name excellent flagships. Top notch public academics compared to the east coast.

Add my vote with those who recognize that your student is not an average top student. I think you are recognizing that he doesn’t have that 0.1% cachet. But- most elite colleges are populated with students with lesser stats than he has so don’t ignore the ones that appeal to him.

18

If he is a very strong soccer player currently getting some notice in the region, consider hitting some recruiting camps this summer to get some experience under his belt (my kid plays D3 soccer so we’ve been through this process). Peak Performance camp is run out of Amherst and brings in coaches from many familiar D1 and D3 schools, and Northeast Elite runs out of Colgate, with an overlapping batch of college coaches. If it’s his first shot at serious recruiting camp, it might make sense to start at something more local this summer to get his “sea legs” at competitive recruiting camps. Does he play DA or compete in national tournaments? If his club team is playing State Cup or Regionals this spring, this would be a good opportunity to contact at least regional coaches to see who might be coming to the tournament and if they would watch him (visit the Athletic Recruit board under “College Admissions” here for more D3 soccer recruiting threads).

NESCAC schools like Amherst, Conn Coll, Bates, Colby etc. don’t give merit, but run the NPC to see how it looks for you. Amherst, Kenyon, St Lawrence are top 10 programs and are recruiting top players. They will find a way to see the talent they are interested in. Vassar is a rising program, as is Skidmore. Oberlin had a remarkably strong season this year and is looking to build on that. Wooster has a dynamic new young coach, and is rebuilding the program from the ground up (translation, they had a rough season). Grinnell coach is wonderful, the program seems to have limited ability to recruit broadly but if a strong player visits, they are very interested. Lawrence and Beloit in WI both have wonderful coaches, but neither seemed to be particularly competitive recruiting. Denison had a rough season, particularly after a top 25 season the year before, but will probably bounce back Davidson is D1, unless he is happy playing club rather than Varsity, probably not worth looking at too closely, same with Bucknell, Lafayette, Lehigh and College of the Holy Cross.

For the more competitive soccer programs, coaches will want a player to commit to the program through ED –
which is tricky when a family is looking at financial aid offers. If the NPC is reliable, that may be enough comfort. The other approach is RD and, if a player is competitive enough, a coach may be willing to wait and see for RD and then try to get them to commit.

Your son sounds like a wonderful young man, and should have plenty of good options as he moves forward. Take a stroll over to Athletic Recruit board to get some advice about contacting coaches etc!

19

@wrldpossibility

Midwestern non-urban options - Denison is very sporty and has merit scholarships up to full tuition. Other possibilities (some already mentioned here): College of Wooster, Lawrence, Kenyon, Oberlin, Grinnell.

One takeaway from my daughter’s experience - we were seeking merit scholarships and targeted places where she was in the top 75% stats-wise. They were at varying levels of competitiveness. Over the course of the process, she discovered that being with intellectually engaged peers was a very high priority and a couple of schools ended up falling off the list after attending some classes and the classroom dynamic fell short. This might also be the case with your son. So I would try to determine if “safeties” also have the academic student culture he seeks. Then again, as he is also strongly oriented towards sports, team camaraderie might be equally or more important.

He sounds like a wonderful young man. Best of luck to you all as you navigate the process for a second time.

20

@Midwestmomofboys what a wealth of information! Thank you! I’ll go to the athletic recruits board because I know very little about that part of it. He’s currently in State Cup this month, so we’ll do as you advise. Looking to get him to an ID camp this summer or next spring break…it’s tough because it’s an expensive airplane ride away. There are local-ish ID camps, but we’ve looked at the list of college coaches attending and didn’t think it would be worth going (as he doesn’t think he wants to attend the schools represented).