Need Help from Ivy Parents

Parents Forum
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<p>Yes, val totally unnecessary. Also more ECs both totally unnecessary and maybe undermining. There are no guarantees anywhere, but high-stat Debate/MUN/Mock Trial/Drama/TASP kids seem to do fine.</p>

<p>TASP is far more important than it seems, for at least four reasons: (1) It’s a supercompetitive program of national reach, with selection criteria that are not much different from those of elite colleges. Having gotten selected there establishes that he shows well in that kind of competition. (2) Having gotten selected there immediately communicates to others that some neutral, national body has determined that he’s among the best of the best. (3) As noted upthread, it puts him in line for TASP-specific opportunities at Cornell, Michigan, and elsewhere. (4) As denied upthread, it IS in large part a summer devoted to developing a more effective Ivy League college application, in the guise of other things, with staff who really know what they are doing and great, great peers.</p>

<p>Because your kid is really strong on paper, there’s no need to exclude a place like NYU or Chicago because it has a reputation for stingy aid, as long as there is some merit available. (And, by the way, a very needy friend of my kids’ wound up at NYU rather than Columbia because NYU gave him a no-loan package and Columbia didn’t. Reputation isn’t determinative in every case.) He should, for example, apply to Michigan, which will be far too expensive without merit aid, but which has a limited number (maybe 100 or so) of rich merit packages that it offers precisely to kids like this. These are opportunities that kids sometimes choose over HYPS, and for good reasons (including money).</p>

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<p>I also wouldn’t worry too much about being valedictorian. My eldest was edged out and got into his 1st choice Ivy. The val did not.</p>

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<p>I am not sweating the val outcome at all. This school declares every 4.0 graduate valedictorian, so there are like a dozen, some of whom took Office Management and others who took AP Physics.</p>

<p>But I really do appreciate everyone’s time and thoughtful comments. Much of this is confirming that what I have tried to learn through lots of CC lurking is generally on target. He has generated lots of options for himself; we need to maximize fit, subject to finance.</p>

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<p>Do next? You don’t really have to “do” very much because your son has already done it. Congratulations on raising what looks like a great kid with a fine academic record. </p>

<p>There is no such thing a sure thing in admissions to Ivy or other high-end schools, but, short of suddenly turning into a football star, it looks like you have most of the pieces available to you already in place. My daughters each ended up in Ivy schools with similar stats and no hooks. Keep him focused on his academics (no senioritis) and see that he puts together some excellent essays and recs for his app and he will have as good a chance as any decent candidate.</p>

<p>Also, your list looks reasonable. Make sure he takes care of the safeties and matches first and you pay attention to making the money part work. HYPS are nice, but they are the frosting on the cake. The cake is the safeties and matches. Good luck!</p>

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<p>UT, My daughter with almost identical stats, got HYP type financial aid offers from several of the “need only” LAC’s. PM me if you want to know which ones.</p>

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<p>I think your son will have fabulous choices and I don’t think there is anything else he needs to do besides keep on his current path. I would offer one caveat about financial aid - at least at Yale they still look at your assets before determining aid, although some is exempted. Income isn’t the only factor.</p>

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<p>With those interests, he should expand his focus beyond HYP - take a look at Johns Hopkins, Georgetown SFS, Duke, GWU, American U., Cornell, Pomona, UCLA, USC, Cal, Tufts, Virginia, Maryland, William & Mary, USMA @ West Point, to name a few.</p>

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<p>Add U of Miami. Sunshine is nice. Merit money is nice, too.l</p>

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<p>I agree with much of the previous posts. As a mom of an Ivy kid from another underrepresented state, I would advise you to have your son think carefully about experiences unique to growing up in Utah and write about it. It’s possible he could add an intersting dimension to the community at many schools. He should point that out. Kids from the rural (or even urban) west often don’t understand that their upbringings are significantly different than most other kids at HYP until they get to those schools and then realize that they have a completely different point of view on many subjects:
politics, religion, public land, water, history, hunting, agriculture, what defines a fun weekend, and so on. Play that up.</p>

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<p>Since money is an issue, you might want to look at some of the top schools that give lots of merit money. I’m not an expert on this, but I know that Emory, Davidson and UNC have wonderful scholarship programs for kids like your son, and there are others, too. If you do enough searching on CC you’ll come up with a list of schools like this. These are extremely competitive.</p>

<p>Since you live in Utah, you are not expected to make a trip out East to visit schools - his application will not suffer if he doesn’t visit. The Ivies offer alumni interviews – typically arranged after the application is in. </p>

<p>Since you’ve found this site, you can make up for the lack of guidance at his high school. The wealth of knowledge here is outstanding. </p>

<p>Your son has all the components that make him a very competitive applicant for the top schools. He doesn’t need to start any new clubs or do anything different than he’s doing now. What he needs to do is figure out the best way to communicate who he is to admissions, to convince them that he would bring something valuable to their campus. His essays, short answers and activity list are the tools he uses to do that.</p>

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<p>This sounds like an amazing candidate!</p>

<p>A few things to keep in mind-underperforming HS meaans one thing for a first gen kid and another for a double Duke legacy with a high EFC.</p>

<p>The 10% rule isn’t so simple. Some of these schools (HYPS) count home equity and all of them mean 10% if you have modest assets. So do have a hard look when you have a $4OK EFC, it may well not mean 10% for you.</p>

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<p>Princeton has a financial aid calculator that might help you get an idea. I agree the “10%rule” isn’t universal. </p>

<p>My advice is for your s to put his soul into his essays. As another poster noted, his background is an asset and he should take advantage of his differences when he does his applications. Another thing I think top schools look for is some evidence that the kid will take advantage of the opportunities the college offers - is this a kid who sought out academic/e.c. ‘adventures’ outside the confines of his school/neighborhood and what did he do with those opportunities? (I think the answer is yes, your s. did - make sure he talks about what those chances meant to him and how he hopes to go further in college).</p>

<p>As far as your HS goes, you live where you live. It can’t be changed but I think people forget that whatever can be looked on as a deficit can be turned around to be an asset and anyone who has a ‘deficit’ like your son’s has been handed a gift. There won’t be many applications from Utah. There will be even fewer TASP kids from Utah. If he can tie in his background with his accomplishments and aspirations, he’ll have plenty of offers. The outside rec (from TASP) will just confirm what his GC and teachers say about him. </p>

<p>Cast a wide net. Small colleges often do care whether a student visits, but not so for the ivys.</p>

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<p>I wouldn’t write off top LACs for financial reasons. Some of them have need based aid comparable to the Ivy League.</p>

<p>I’d caution you about putting too much self-identifying information online.</p>

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<p>Your son’s resume and stats look fine. His involvement in theater looks interesting, especially that he founded a youth Shakespeare company. Yale does has a reputation for artsy kids, among the Ivies, and Princeton and Harvard are trying to improve: I believe Harvard has added a theater major, in fact.</p>

<p>There seem to be a lot of TASP kids at Harvard (one of my kids talks about this a lot, since two of her friends went to TASP). I didn’t really know what it was.</p>

<p>The list of schools looks good. I forget if Oberlin is on there-? Amherst and Williams have good financial aid, too, I believe.</p>

<p>Utah is a plus, as is a high school that has not sent many to the schools your son is interested in (and the school sounds like it is good quality, despite the rarity of Ivy admissions). Don’t worry about guidance counseling. We didn’t use ours much at all, except for the recommendation.</p>

<p>Tell your son not to be shy about sending other recommendations in, from his theater work, for instance. You can call admissions and ask them if this is okay, and how many. Two extras, if important in an application, are fine, I know.</p>

<p>Otherwise, and please don’t take this wrong, but I would suggest that you back off, yourself, at this point. We honestly did not even know the SAT’s of our kids. Talking about positioning your son for admission can sound kind of crass (no offense, and it is very common, just saying how it can sound to our kids), and your son does not need to think that way anyway.</p>

<p>Encourage him to do what he loves, and support any deepening of those interests that he is naturally drawn to. Once you start talking about doing things to help him “get in,” you are messing with the authenticity that, ironically can be a big plus toward the goal.</p>

<p>I know he is a boy, and often boys seem to involve us a little more for some reason, but I would encourage as much independence as you can for the coming year, in the application process, academics and in life choices. </p>

<p>And start preparing for your own life after he leaves, by withdrawing as much as you can, comfortably, do!</p>

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<p>Thanks again for the thoughtful comments. The emphasis on first quality essays is surely right on target.</p>

<p>compmom–You are probably correct that I should back off some. But I refuse to become a passive bystander for two very different reasons. First, we are likely talking about a $100k+ expenditure of MY money, and I have a strong personal need to ensure that it is well spent. Second, I really feel I let S1 down as he went through college admissions because I didn’t know what we were doing. He applied to a range of mid-top LACs and got into all but his top personal choice–waitlisted and denied. If I knew then even a third of what I have learned from CC over the past several months, I would have advised him to do several things differently (like multiple SAT sittings because of superscoring, shifting some APs from SR to JR year, writing a less flippant “Why I want to go there” essay, etc.) and I think he likely would have gotten in. And let me be clear that it not about me wanting him to go there; I never even visited. But it was his dream school and I nevertheless feel that if my advice had been more on target, the outcome might have been different. I don’t have huge regret or guilt about the outcome–it is what it is–but I am committed to being smarter on behalf of S2.</p>

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<p>I’d be very careful of assuming some of these are matches these days.</p>

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<p>Your strategy looks pretty good. Other than your reach schools, focus entirely on schools with big merit aid. Fortunately these are some of the best schools in the nation.</p>

<p>The NYT chronicled one senior this year that ended up choosing a full ride at Vanderbilt over Yale. [Vanderbilt</a> Tops Yale, in a Squeaker - The Choice Blog - NYTimes.com](<a href=“http://thechoice.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/04/30/envelope-greshko-5/]Vanderbilt”>Vanderbilt Tops Yale, in a Squeaker - The New York Times)</p>

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<p>Good advice above. I’d also recommend if he is going to visit HYPS for campus visits that he set up chats in advance with one or two faculty members on each campus in departments that might covet what he would bring to their campus. For instance, Harvard has a new minor in Theatre Arts. With his theatre background, your son might set up a 20-30 minute meeting with the faculty member in charge of that program. The program is new, small, and might really appreciate his interest. Then, when he applies, have him submit materials from his theatre background as supplemental materials with his application. These will be forwarded to the appropriate faculty member for evaluation and comment - likely the same person with whom your son spoke on his visit. That will give your son’s contact a chance to put in a plug for him.</p>

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<p>Got to agree with Riverrunner on this (#29) - if those East Coast schools really want diversity on campuss, they should consider diversity of perspectives on the world. Growing up out west is a lot different that growing up in the Boston-D.C. corridor.</p>

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<p>Another fan of riverrunner’s post

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<p>It’s not just “under-represented” states either. Texas sends kids everywhere. But which Texas? Houston or Hico? </p>

<p>As a trail-blazing local kid told my ranch-raised D "When I was at the dorm at Yale we were watching a movie where the camera was focused on the cab of a pick-up. A kid asked- </p>

<p>Q: What’s that thing behind their heads?
A: Ya mean the gun-rack? :wink: </p>

<p>They were amazed."</p>