need help from the pros

<p>DS has procrastinated and of course the final apps are due Dec 31--argh! Anyway, S has been waiting for his Dec ACT scores but they are delayed (that is what you get for waiting until the last minute) and was going to use those results to help narrow his list of colleges he should apply to. We are not in a financial position to let him apply to more than 3 more universities. He has been researching a lot, but many of the ones he is interested in are too far for us to visit so he doesn't know for "sure" which would be best for him. He wants to major in Chemical Engineering. He has great stats #1/325, 4.8/4.0, great EC's (although no science or math competitions--we're from a small rural town), SAT II's 790 M, 770 CH, 10 AP's, and 6 college classes. The problem? 30 on the ACT (36 M. 24E)--SAT wasn't any better. S has dyslexia and didn't learn to read until 4th grade (will not discuss in any essays) and he simply cannot read very fast. He did manage a 4 on AP English. He thinks he may have been able to have gotten his E score to a 28 on the last test for a best case scenario of a 31 ACT.</p>

<p>Here is my question: If you had to narrow down the list, how would you do it? Should he strictly stay with schools in his ACT range or the ones he "thinks" he likes the best. He has already been accepted to a safety (UC Davis) and has applied UCB, UCLA, and MIT (#1 choice, deferred to RD). He is OK with attending UC Davis so no need for more safeties.</p>

<p>Here is his list:(these are all a reach we know)
-Johns Hopkins
-Cornell
-Rice
-Columbia
-Princeton
-Harvard
-Yale
-Stanford (#2 choice-will apply for sure)</p>

<p>It is OK to be brutally honest, we're in the 11th hour. BTW--he has worked on all the supplemental apps (he just can't pick!)</p>

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To be realistic, the app fee is a drop in the bucket relative to the costs of going to college. Just one trip to the east coast for him when he’s attending is enough to pay for a number of apps. Ditto with one semester’s worth of books.</p>

<p>None of those on that list are a given as you know so if he’s serious about wanting to attend one of them, and you’re serious about allowing him to, and you have a good idea you’ll be able to afford it, then it might make sense for him to apply to all of the ones he’s interested in to have a better chance of receiving an acceptance and also so you’ll have achance to see what the finAid package will be like. If he knows he’d opt for UCD over one of these eastern colleges even if he was accepted then he can boot it from the list and not apply. You don’t want to be penny-wise/pound-foolish.</p>

<p>If you’ve seen some of the other recent threads on affordability - make sure you can pay for wherever he’d end up - i.e. do the EFC calcs and see what the particular college grants as grants. Don’t forget to consider the logistics of several airplane trips per year if the college is far away, the cost of living there, cost of books, etc.</p>

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<p>These schools are in the REACH range for even the BEST applicants as you already know. There are no guaranteed admissions at these schools even for students with perfect ACT or SAT scores. They decline admission to many vals who apply. The possible exception on this list is Hopkins, but even that is a tough admit.</p>

<p>Your son needs to choose his three final schools carefully and in my humble opinion, they should ALL be schools where he has a strong likelihood of acceptance. He should pick schools where his current standardized test scores AND current grades will make it VERY likely that he will be accepted. It would be nice for him to have some choices to make come April…not just have Davis if all else fails.</p>

<p>If you are asking my opinion about choosing three schools from the above list, I would say Johns Hopkins is a good choice. To be honest, all of the rest accept VERY small numbers of applicants so you may as well just pick one or two. He could be one of the 10% or so of applicants who get accepted…or one of the 90% who don’t.</p>

<p>My recommendations from that list for an aspiring chemical engineer, besides Stanford, would be Rice and Cornell, because of their great strength in engineering across the board. They also aren’t as crazy a crapshoot as HYP.</p>

<p>If he’s okay with UC Davis, just let him apply to what he likes. </p>

<p>I do tend to agree that the odds are better at the more engineering schools, but admission are not always predictable. My older son may have gotten into Harvard as a legacy, but it may also have been because they have recently officially added an engineering school and need to beef it up with good candidates. (He was rejected at MIT, Stanford and Caltech, but has been happy as a clam at Carnegie Mellon.) So I’d say if the House system appeals to him, or Cambridge (probably not New Haven), or being with a lot of non-engineers, he may still want to look at Harvard or Yale, but otherwise other schools might make more sense. I’ve got a bias against Princeton at the moment as a son’s friend has been floundering there, probably more his fault than the schools.</p>

<p>I agree it’s nice to have choices, so perhaps one other safety-ish school should be on your short list. My nephew absolutely thrived at Rice so that would be on my list, and Cornell which around here seems to be easier to get into. It’s probably a drag to get to transportation-wise, while Johns Hopkins is MUCH easier. No one at our school ever gets into Stanford without sports or legacy, but if your school has better odds by all means add it.</p>

<p>Thanks for the quick replies! We realize all the schools are tough to get into but want to go with what is closest to realistic and what is best for chemical engineering (but who knows if he’ll change his mind once he starts). We currently have a S in college who is a senior, so our finances will be in a better place once he graduates this June (well, at least we should be able to afford S2) and expect to get some financial aid. If S does attend an east coast school he would probably only be able to come home for Christmas and summer (and we would buy tickets early). We will be able to afford a trip to visit any campus(es) he is accepted to in the spring.</p>

<p>I think Cornell is a good match for his personality (but only from what I’ve read and videos). He said Columbia seems too big city (after watching 20 youtube student videos tonight) and prefers UCLA over UCB for the same reason. If we had to pay for more apps, we could make it work but I hate to be wasteful. On the other hand, we know NOTHING about trying to get into an elite college and whether S is even in the ballpark. We have not been “helicopter parents” and frankly were quite shocked at what S managed to achieve-we NEVER thought he would be valedictorian, let alone have a shot at anything beyond the UC’s. His small public high school sends a kid to Stanford about every 2-3 years and has some Ivy League students at about the same rate–so not normal, but not unheard of. </p>

<p>Just want to do what we should for our S while staying within our means.</p>

<p>About UC Davis–he is OK if that is the only place he gets admitted. All of the other universities would be preferred. He knows he would get a good education there and that it would be affordable for us. He would also be close enough to home to visit (but I refuse to do laundry). I think he is just trying not to get his hopes up too high as engineering is tough to get into.</p>

<p>Your son already has a solid safety in Davis. Because he’s the top ranked student in his school, he also has an excellent shot at UCB or UCLA. I think he can consider all three a safety net.</p>

<p>I think unless there are other schools he’s dying to attend, he should just stand pat with this list. Just my two cents.
:-)</p>

<p>If your finances are such a concern (you can only apply to 3) you should consider locations and airfare for the 4 +annual trips by plane your student will take per year.</p>

<p>Johns Hopkins<em>Served by BWI. Usually good fares. Also a short ride from DC airports.
-Cornell-Very tough to get to by air.
-Rice</em>Houston…closer to west coast.
-Columbia flights to NYC from 3 major airports.
-Princeton Tough to get by plane.
-Harvard Only serviced by logan.
-Yale Tough to get to by plane.</p>

<p>Rice…Columbia. Harvard</p>

<p>I don’t think it matters in the least. If I had to narrow down the list, I’d leave it TOTALLY in his hands, and only provide advice if asked. After all, he’s already accepted in a place where he’d get a fine education.</p>

<p>His ACT score is going to put him at a competitive disadvantage for an unhooked applicant at these most selective schools (HYPS plus Columbia). If it were me, I would only keep JHU, Cornell, and Rice on the list of schools that he still has not applied to yet. There’s no guarantee that he gets into any of these three, but he has a better chance with these than the other schools remaining. Good luck!</p>

<p>I’d say: Rice and Cornell.</p>

<p>Rice: good engineering program and more affordable than some others, if you don’t get full FA</p>

<p>Cornell: fits his personality, good program, and potentially good FA. Getting there is a nuisance, but he could take a bus from NYC. It’s $16 on holiday trips.

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<p>I know this is too late in the game for your son, but did he get accommodations on the SAT and ACT? A kid who has documented dyslexia since elementary school should get extra time on those tests. </p>

<p>And my opinion – a kid who couldn’t read in fourth grade and is now valedictorian is an amazing success story, and not something to necessarily shy away from in essays.</p>

<p>As for how to narrow the list – I agree this is his choice, but mentioning the transportation thing might be a good idea. Figure out how long it takes to fly from where to you live to Cornell or Yale or Princeton, including the time to get to the airport on the college end. </p>

<p>At this late date, he might want to do the apps with the essays that appeal to him.</p>

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<p>He officially exited special education (started in pre-school with speech issues) once he learned to read. Although his reading scores were always far behind math and science, the school claimed they were within a normal range for his age. They gave him the “Raven” and he tested in the “gifted” range. We never questioned anything, we were just glad he learned to read (his writing followed but it too was a very painful process). I guess he just figured out his own way to get around his dyslexia. He used to tell us he had special tricks (??). He is capable of writing some really impressive stuff but he will spend twice the amount of time as any of his AP peers. </p>

<p>Thanks for all the great advice, it is very helpful. I think we will suggest he stay away from HYP and he has decided not to apply to Columbia. He said he has to apply to Stanford no matter what (we are in CA, it’s a dream school kind of thing) so its down to Rice, JHU, and Cornell. </p>

<p>We’ll see what he decides.</p>

<p>Did you consider having his counselor include mention of the dyslexia in the counselor’s recommendation, if your S didn’t want to write an essay about it?</p>

<p>It’s really impressive he’s managed to overcome this.</p>

<p>I think Rice and Princeton, given the intended major. Also, to correct Imontoyoa, Princeton is 1/2 way between two major airports - Newark and Philly so not hard to get to by plane. There is a train to Newark Airport that is easy. Train to Philly airport, too, but a bit more money and time. But Southwest serves Philly and has good fares from the west coast.</p>

<p>If MIT is his first choice, then I’d add Caltech to list to be considered. Its in CA, tuition is less than MIT (I saved about &10,000 year), no travel costs. It has the House system, like Rice. Chem E strong dept. </p>

<p>I"m not sure why he ruled out UCB for engineering. The school atmosphere? size?</p>

<p>If application fees are an issue, why not get fees waived? Its probably too late to do this thru HS, but call the college.</p>

<p>In looking at Cornell’s acceptance stats for COE, they will accept students with high math/science test scores and lower reading scores. Your son may have a very good shot at Cornell. </p>

<p>As far as getting to Ithaca, it is not as bad as people think. My daughter now travels regularly by air to come see us, since we are no longer within driving distance. We could easily get her flight flights out of Ithaca airport or Syracuse if necessary. Her roommate is from west coast, and she flies home for every break with very few problems. </p>

<p>I will put in a pitch for Cornell…it is a large school, with smart and more normal kids, and the make up of the school is more like a public school. The kids are down to earth, but also very driven. There is a lot of diversity because of it’s size, and it is beautiful (very different than Stanford’s beauty). COE is very difficult relative to other schools within Cornell, but your son may thrive at it. He will also be able to take courses in other schools (Hotel and AEM for finance and management) and he could also transfer out ( to another school) if he should change his mind about engineering, it’s not always the case with other colleges(like Columbia).</p>