NEED help narrowing down East Coast LAC List!

College Search & Selection
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<p>Hi all! I'm a senior from Colorado, and have been interested in a few of the small East Coast liberal arts schools. Due to some time constraints and family situations, I won't be able to visit any, at least not before applications are due. I've done a lot of online research and I have a rough idea of what each college is like, but it seems hard to differentiate between all of the schools without visiting, especially in the student life category, because they seem really similar. </p>

<p>I love the idea of a liberal arts college and I want challenging academics, small class sizes, and great professors ideally. However I want to avoid the "preppy" culture, which seems somewhat prevalent at many of these schools. I love anything outdoors, so access to skiing, climbing, hiking, etc. and people who share the same interests is great. I'm also set on studying abroad, and diversity on campus would be great. I'm not sure about my major yet so a school that has strong programs in both sciences and humanities would be ideal. I am not into partying, though I know it's prevalent pretty much everywhere, but if the campus has nonalcoholic activities available and/or less of a party culture that would be a huge plus. Mostly I'm just looking for a college with a friendly, uncompetitive, but still mentally challenging environment.</p>

<p>A rundown of my stats: 4.0 GPA unweighted, 35 ACT, 6 AP's total, biggest extracurriculars are volunteering for local ski patrol, editor of the school newspaper, playing piano, and mentoring program.</p>

<p>The schools I've been considering include:
Middlebury
Williams
Amherst
Bowdoin
Hamilton
Skidmore
Colby
Bates</p>

<p>If anybody has any insight into any of these schools, or any other suggestions, it would be greatly appreciated.</p>

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<p>It’s impossible to predict admission chances at these schools but I’ll give you some general impressions from a decade of putting kids in selective east coast schools. These are generalizations, of course, and for every observation I share there will be someone here who has a different perspective. So keep researching! You can find videos on youtube about different aspects and groups at the various colleges - not the videos on the admissions pages! And keep asking around. Read the school newspapers, blogs, anything that gives you a feel for the community. </p>

<p>Bowdoin, Bates and Colby are pretty much the only selective private colleges in Maine. BOWDOIN: Bowdoin is the academic powerhouse of these and has been climbing the rankings for a few years. Their endowment hit 1B last year which was a big deal for the school. Bowdoin has an incredibly friendly student body, maybe the best food of any college, a strong outdoors program (to go with the looong cold winters) and a marine study center less than an hour from campus. The college does lots of service work in the community and has a very friendly relationship with the town. Focus on sustainability. Look up the Offer of the College. It’s actually pretty inspiring. They have Nordic ski teams and an alpine club was revived in 2013.
BATES: Kids who love Bates really love it. It’s considered the hippie/crunchy/ granola school of the Maine trio. Also excellent academics. Somewhat less selective than Bowdoin, but those who attend say it is no less rigorous. My niece graduated from Bates about a decade ago and she was very very earthy, dreadlocks, lived in a co-op, made her own soap and clothes, backyard chickens, etc. After a while though, she got frustrated with sit-ins and rallies and went to an outstanding law school, and now does environmental law plus consulting for a nice wage. She is still incredibly close with all her Bates friends, and some are raising their kids communally but all are working for the man in one way or another. So that’s just pure anecdote but there was a big group of these kids back then. Someone else can chime in with more current observations. COLBY: Colby is the least selective and considered the most athletic of the three.If skiing is really important to you though, this (0r Midd) may be your school. They have outstanding Div I nordic and alpine teams. I can’t tell you anything that you won’t find in the guidebooks/websites. None of my kids looked at it because they were looking for a super academic culture. Any of these Maine schools would be great for your hiking and climbing, and general outdoors life.</p>

<p>Another trio in east coast SLACs is the Williams, Amherst, Swarthmore triumverate – considered the top 3 LACs on this coast. I’m surprised you don’t have Swarthmore on your list – it is the antithesis of preppy. Swarthmore has a reputation for being a pressure cooker - a little bit like UChicago - students who love to be miserable and overworked…but my last D just spent 3 days on campus and didn’t have that impression at all. She did find it to be a work hard/play hard school with the outstanding academics and study abroad you’re seeking-- but not so much the outdoorsy culture. So maybe that’s why you aren’t looking at it.
Some people say there is little significant difference between Williams and Amherst, besides location. (But most who attend don’t agree and there is a historic and fierce but friendly (!) rivalry). Amherst is in a town and is in the middle of a 5 college consortium, and Williams is rural and isolated: the Purple Valley or ‘purple bubble’ in the middle of the glorious purple mountains. There are plenty of students who, after visiting both, have a strong preference for other reasons. The campuses are also quite different physically. I have a kid at Williams who sounds much like you - an enthusiastic scholar, avid hiker, not a drinker at all and she is in heaven there. She chose Williams over a couple Ivies and couldn’t be happier. Amherst has a t-shirt that says “Williams College is a terrible college” and Williams has one reading “Friends don’t let friends go to Amherst College”. </p>

<p>Middlebury is often compared with Williams because of the rural campus and active outdoors clubs. Midd also has its own ski area and great competitive teams. For strong academics and skiing Midd can’t be beat. Middlebury is working on diversity but has not come as far as other NESCAC schools, so it is a more homogenous campus, and some feel it still has a more privileged vibe. The campus is gorgeous but very spread out, lots of walking from anywhere to anywhere - so you’ll be fit! The long Vermont winters do inspire a pretty robust drinking culture - which you will find in some degree at all these schools - you just need to make sure you’re on a campus where there is enough for you to do when everyone else is partying! Recently a Midd alum here on CC reported that his current impression of Midd is that they are ‘a little full of themselves’. But D4’s best friend, a quirky hipster creative type started at Midd this fall and seems happy. And if you want to ski…</p>

<p>Hamilton has the Greek thing going on, thus/plus the preppy and drinking aspects you are looking to avoid. It has great features like a superb writing program and much more, but definitely doesn’t fit your profile quite as much as some of the other schools. I know nothing about Skidmore except by reputation and from reading so you probably know as much. </p>

<p>I’m sure you also know you have Colorado College right there, offering everything you listed as your deal makers :slight_smile: and it seems to be on every up-and-coming college list these days. And if you wanted to branch out and look into west coast LACs there’s Reed and Pomona… </p>

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<p>I don’t think I could improve on @mynightowl’s thumbnail descriptions, so I won’t catalog. Our impression of Hamilton was more positive: the location is quite remote, but very beautiful. The Greek system is less influential than it used to be (they abolished houses some years back) and the arts program is strong.</p>

<p>As the parent of a Williams graduate, I think you’d find everything you’re looking for there. Several of the others on your list were on my son’s shortlist (Amherst, Hamilton, Skidmore, plus Wesleyan which is a little different in environment, but has overlaps in student type).</p>

<p>What drew him to Williams was the profoundly beautiful natural surroundings and the daily access to nature. Even though he grew up in the tropics, he became a dedicated snowboarder in no time. He’s a light drinker and found his social group of outdoorsy, quirky and intellectually curious friends immediately. The orientation backpacking trip and the entry system is a good way to start off. Winter study is a month of hitting the slopes, socializing and taking one off-beat course.</p>

<p>My son majored in the humanities, but his friends were pretty well balanced across the academic spectrum – arts, sciences, social sciences. They all ended up at excellent graduate schools. All of these LACs have very good humanities and social sciences. I’d give Williams the edge for overall math/science.</p>

<p>If your interest in piano is serious I would add that Williams has excellent music performance opportunities, even for non-majors, and music (and arts participation in general) is an EC that they value. You should consider submitting a performance supplement with your application.</p>

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<p>There’s probably no real reason to pre-screen any of these schools. Just apply, see where you get in, then decide which one fits best. Why eliminate the chance to go to the best school for you based on someone else’s perceptions? Visit once you get acceptances.</p>

<p>My D goes to Hamilton and I tend to disagree with the above description - one of the big things at Hamilton is the pre-orientation session they have for freshman, Adirondack Adventure. You arrive a week early and head off for an adventure in the woods that you select, from a 90-mile canoe trip to an easy set of hikes or camping. You can also do community service work or take an academic class. The cross-country trails turn into Nordic trails once the snow flies, which is does early. Like many of the NESCACs, the Outdoor Club is the biggest club on campus.</p>

<p>The only school in your list that seems to stick out is Skidmore - good school, but you’re way overqualified compared to the average admit. Unless there is a compelling reason to go there or it’s just a safety, it’s not quite on the same level as the others, but you probably knew that.</p>

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<p>If physics is a potential major, you may want to check the course catalogs and schedules to see if all of the usual advanced physics courses are offered on a frequent enough basis. Physics is not that popular a major, so some physics departments are rather small and offer each advanced course only once every two years.</p>

<p>Be sure to check the net price calculator at each school to see how financially realistic it is.</p>

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<p>can you afford any of these schools? have you had The Talk with your parents about their commitment for these four years? </p>

<p>btw, great description of all the schools by the newcomer. my D too found Hamilton and Skidmore (and Bard) far from the same attractiveness for some of the same reasons. you sound much like her, and middle bury was her favorite of these. having said that, why anyone would leave colorado to ski on New England ice and rocks in cold that rips your lips off beats the daylights out of me. Go Buffs!</p>

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<p>@nynightowl Thank you SO much. That is exactly what I needed to get me started- a more inside perspective on these schools. Thanks also for the advice about youtube videos and newspapers. And I have heard of Swarthmore, but I guess I just didn’t get a good impression from my cousin, who visited and said the campus was lifeless on a beautiful day (maybe the overworked thing?) and as you said, it seemed to have less of an outdoorsy vibe. I will definitely check it out though! I am applying to Colorado College and some west coast schools as well, but I’d like to apply to at least a few in New England so I have options (if I get into them, that is). </p>

<p>Thanks @momrath for the perspective on Williams as well. I suspected it had kind of a “preppy” culture but from what you’re saying it sounds like I might fit in there! Thanks so much for the advice. </p>

<p>@MrMom62 I’ll probably end up applying to 2-3 of these, as I don’t want to waste money on application fees for schools I don’t want to go to. Thanks for the insight on Hamilton. I actually know one of the Outdoor Program directors there, who of course recommended it strongly. Seems like there is both a preppy/drinking culture and a more relaxed/outdoorsy culture there maybe? As for Skidmore, I don’t know much about it either, my aunt suggested it to me. I’ll have to do some research and maybe it could be a match or safety school.</p>

<p>@jkeil911 I am applying for financial aid, but we will see what happens. My parents are committed to paying for college, but I doubt I’d go to any of these schools if we didn’t get at least some sort of aid. @‌ Running the net price calculator is definitely something I have to do. And it does break my heart to think of skiing anywhere but Colorado haha! Guess I am spoiled, but I do know that many of these colleges are in beautiful environments with lots to do and lots to offer, so I think it’s worth it to check them out.</p>

<p>Thanks everyone for such great responses. It was a big help!</p>

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<p>My daughter is pre-med and seriously looked at Colorado College but ultimately decided it wasn’t a good place to do pre-med or any hard science. Maybe some people can do it, but she really didn’t relish the idea of doing Organic Chem in 3.5 weeks, even if that was her only class. Her thinking was that if you get sick or anything goes wrong during that period, it’s going to be very difficult to recover in a class like that. Their one-class-at-a-time sounds great for the humanities, not so much for the sciences.</p>

<p>Hamilton’s reputation as a drinking school is a remnant of their days of having Greek houses which have been shut down for years. They don’t even make Princeton Review’s list of hard drinking schools anymore and my daughter reports you can drink as much or little as you want. There are plenty of non-drinking students and my daughter is pretty controlled about it and doesn’t care much for the party and puke crowd, so she avoided the obvious party places like Colgate or Union. There’s a preppy element at just about every LAC, not sure it’s any different at Hamilton than anyplace else. No reports from D of it being an issue.</p>

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<p>About colorado college, I can’t even see it for the humanities. It would really help if one were a very quick reader. When was the last time any of us read ten Russian novels in three weeks, took exams, and wrote papers? I read very fast, but I wouldn’t even want to teach a course that required me to do that much reading and have that much to accomplish in three weeks. It might not even be the best way to learn. There’s a limit to the information the brain can absorb at one sitting before absorption rate declines quickly. As you say, one of the criteria of any semester, it seems, is a period of illness lasting two days to two weeks. News alert to parents: not only doesn’t the reading get done by everyone, I can’t see how most kids aren’t reading sparks notes to the exclusion of most of the novels. Such courses would be grad school on steroids without any intelligent discussion.</p>

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<p>One more school you might consider is Dartmouth. It does have an earned reputation as a party school (although it’s working on changing that), but it also has a very hardcore outdoors cohort, a skiway twenty minutes away, and excellent academics.</p>

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<p>What about Brown?</p>

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<p>Having just been at Colorado College for their Fall Open House, this is what they say. Note that DH was bugged by the fact that they have no data on any of this it is all anecdotal. They say that the students seem to retain better on the block system. For example, a student when chem in block 1 actually seems to remember more from that if they next take chem a few blocks or even a year after rather than in block 2. The idea then is that the intense learning with time to settle actually is better than learning spread out over a year. The students we met didn’t seem to think that they were working harder than students in an equivalent college on the semester system because they only have one class. They know what is expected and there’s no time for procrastination so they just get the work done. We didn’t meet any science majors but the humanities majors all said the workload is high but tolerable and all the students seem to have plenty of time for other activities. I can see how doing a lab science would be tough and as I said we didn’t meet any science majors since DS is more social sci/humanities. </p>

<p>The way they have continuity is with adjunct classes. Say a kid is in drawing in one block and may not get back to art until a few blocks down the road. They can take art as an adjunct class, which meets for an hour maybe every day or maybe a couple of days a week, for a quarter credit. They aren’t expected to learn more in an adjunct class but they can continue a project or maintain skills. They also have adjunct classes for quantitative classes and languages so you don’t learn new things in Spanish but you practice what you do know so you’re ready for the next time you take Spanish (or math). </p>

<p>The real value I see in the block schedule is the ability to travel or do field work. Say you were taking Italian Renaissance Art. How nice it would be to go to Italy to study! Maybe you don’t learn all the detail you would in a semester long class in a classroom but you’d probably learn what you did learn more deeply and you’d be more likely to retain that passion throughout your life. Since most people aren’t going to remember the detail and can look it up if they need it that seems like a plus to me. The costs of these trips are often little more than the normal costs to attend CC. For example, they have a 2 block language requirement. There’s no way to meet it except with their classes. But you can test into a higher level and as far as I can tell one way to meet the requirement is with a 2 block trip to Peru or to Chile, each block a different class including the 2nd block in Chile being the politics of Chile. What a great topic and place! Classes also do things that are not so grand. A botany class could drive up from Colorado Springs to the top of Pikes Peak and see the change of biomes. A geology class could learn about the Rockies. An art student could really work on an art project and not have to leave to go to a different class after an hour. </p>

<p>As for sickness, it’s possible to change a grade to pass/fail. It’s also possible to make up credits by taking a summer block (1 is free for students) or a free winter break half block or quarter credit adjunct blocks so dropping one block is not a problem. Of course a longer term absence would be a problem anywhere but maybe less so on the block system where you could miss a block or two and not be in as bad shape as missing a semester.</p>

<p>I really loved CC and I think it’s a fabulous place for the right student. I’d pack my backs and go if I were looking at colleges! The best and most impactful academic experiences I ever had were in classes when I was able to go into the field to learn. The CC staff seem to think that the students who apply to the college are pretty self selecting and kids don’t come there who aren’t really interested in working on the block schedule. Freshmen spend their first two blocks in a writing intensive First Year Experience course of their choosing to get them used to the block schedule. Two more senior students we met said that was the hardest block they took. (Believe it or not, I have no connection to CC and am not being paid for this!)</p>

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<p>PhxRising, thanks for sharing that about CC! My last child (D’15 :)) is a current senior looking at LACs all over the country, and she is the opposite of OP - she’s trying to break away from the east coast, probably bc of 3 very high achieving sibs who stayed with NESCAC & Ivy. In November CC is flying her out for their 3 day Multicultural Open House, and I’ve already been so impressed with the college. For one thing, they pay for a parent (me :D) to attend the program as well ( airfare, hotel, food etc) and when they were booking the return flight, the times weren’t working out well, so they decided to pay for us to stay an extra day/night just to fly out at a civilized time (they actually offered to rent us a car for the last day - say what?!) So we have an extra 24 hours to explore the area together. I’m really excited, for a mini vacation in CO as well as to visit the college! </p>

<p>About the block system at CC, my hunch is that it may be great for certain kids, dependent on learning styles. At first it sounded so strange and unworkable but I’m being won over. The students who have already contacted D’15 to answer questions talk about the value of the immersion experience, and the fact that classes can and do run over time because it’s your only course. And, of course, there’s the possibility of getting off campus for practicums often, as you noted. Even when they don’t go abroad, there are numerous ‘field trips’ with every subject. Thanks for describing the adjunct classes - I’ll be sure to ask more when we’re on campus.
I was initially looking at CC for D’15 as more in the safety school bracket - <em>of course</em> not a <em>real</em> Safety but certainly less selective than most of her list. But now I’m beginning to see it as a potential viable choice for it’s own unique reasons. Of course we’ll see more after the campus visit. The school’s generosity is definitely enhancing my impression.
OP, sorry to go off on a tangent - but maybe it isn’t really OT if you’re looking at CC also.</p>

<p>I also have had kids at 2 of the colleges on your list, and agree pretty much completely with nightowl’s excellent summary. It’s always so preferable to visit and tap into the college vibe yourself, but you can do that at spring previews when you have a bunch of acceptances in hand ;D. </p>

<p>Your stats do look superb so there’s no reason not to aim high, but I’m going to point out anyway that there are excellent LACs in the middle of the country ( Carleton et al )which are by nature less preppy. They are much less selective ( by the #s) for a similar quality education. And there’s Pomona in CA for top-notch academics and skiing. But I do definitely understand the draw of the East Coast college scene…and there’s no reason not to apply to as many colleges as you can afford and do a good job on the application. </p>

<p>Good luck with the process, and let us know where you decide to apply! </p>

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<p>@honeybee63: Have fun at CC! The open house was fun with lots of food and a performance by the three acapella groups at CC. We talked with a family from near Denver who had been on a visit in August and they joked that they came back for the food! My DS had a great time meeting different kids in the dorms and he enjoyed the class he went to. They recognize that they have a diversity problem and are really making an effort to increase diversity; we were there at the same time as a Multicultural Open House. </p>

<p>Sorry, OP, but I wasn’t sure where else to put this! If you want any more info honeybee63, message me privately.</p>

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<p>@PhxRising @honeybee63 No problem! CC is one of my top choices as well. I have visited and know a few people who go there, and they seem to be loving it and have had a lot of opportunities. The Block Plan, as you said, allows students to immerse themselves in the subject and travel as a class. I know a girl who is doing a pre-med track there, and it seems to work fine; she even got the opportunity to travel to Costa Rica and volunteer at a clinic there as a part of a class, so it seems to be fine for science as well as humanities, though it does seem to be a more humanities-focused school. The thing I really love about the block plan is that every class is less than 25 students, and obviously you get to know your professor and the other students as you are with them every day for three and a half weeks. I can see why @MrMom62 and @jkeil911 are concerned about retention and reading on the Block Plan though— you definitely have to keep up with readings. I don’t think you could really get away with using sparknotes since the classes are so discussion based; it would be obvious if you hadn’t read what you were supposed to. On top of that, all of the students I talked to there were REALLY nice. My perspective is that it’s a great school with a great educational environment— but of course that’s just what I got from visiting and talking to current students; I guess it is difficult to compare the educational rigor to another college. </p>

<p>I’ve looked into some of the other LACs in the middle of the country, but I just can’t see myself living there for four years— I basically need to do be doing something outside to survive. Thanks for the suggestion, though, and your insight into Colorado College! </p>

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<p>@momrath One question about Williams—they really seem to emphasize their “tutorial” program, but is that something every student gets the chance to do? Is it a one-time thing or could you have a tutorial multiple semesters? Does everyone do it or is it hard to actually get access to?</p>

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<p>Tutorials are VERY accessible to all students. Generally, every department offers at least one each term. I wouldn’t say that you’d never get shut out of a tutorial or any class at Williams, but it’s rare. </p>

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<p>It looks like tutorials listed at <a href=“http://catalog.williams.edu/catalog.php”>http://catalog.williams.edu/catalog.php&lt;/a&gt; are those courses where enrollment levels are expected to be very low (10 or fewer), and meeting times are typically arranged by the instructor and students (and the instructor may have multiple meeting times, each with a few of the students).</p>

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<p>The tutorials are comprised of two students and one professor, so if there are 10 students enrolled there will 5 different meeting times, once a week for each pair. The professor assigns the partners and arranges the times. </p>

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<p>OP, the tutorials are an exciting part of the Williams curriculum, but students usually only enroll in 2 or 3 during their entire time at Williams. That reminded me, though, to tell you (maybe you already know) about the Williams/Oxford Program. WIOX is a truly incredible study-abroad opportunity and if you are interested in the tutorial system, rigorous academics and spending a year at a university that’s been in continuous operation for ~ 1000 years…check it out! During that year, you will be a fully enrolled Oxford student participating every aspect of life at the college and have the chance to travel in Europe ( or beyond) during the two 6 week school breaks. ‘Ephs among the Dreaming Spires’ is a very in depth handbook, and there’s lots of information on the Williams website. Just something to throw into the mix while you’re deliberating! </p>