Need Help Picking High Reaches

College Search & Selection
21

@Chembiodad, I believe you that an Economics degree from a top LAC isn’t viewed differently than a Business degree from a similarly ranked university, but do those two kids come out with the same knowledge? Can the kid with the Economics degree evaluate a company’s books to see if it’s a sound investment? I’m assuming the Econ kid went to a school like Union that offers no Accounting courses in it’s Economics department.

I just checked Lafayette, and they offer an Intro to Financial Accounting, and 6 courses that would probably be Finance courses at a university. Hamilton offers an Intro To Accounting and 5 Finance courses. That’s better, but not enough for a kid that has an interest in Accounting and wants to keep going.

22

Oh, yeah, I generally agree with your points, @WalknOnEggShells. In essence, why should any student be hampered because of her pursuit of an “elite” education?

Schools

Skidmore : I think the fairly numerous fine arts students here may appear liberal by mostly superficial aspects. By actual politics, I’m not sure that Skidmore would be too liberal for a moderately conservative student. Offers a business major. Tends slightly toward a practical orientation compared to some peers (though they no longer offer the nursing program they once did).

Colby: A possible reach, and a fine school.

St. Lawrence: Compares favorably in lots of ways to Colby and offers a business program. Not a particularly difficult admit. A conservative student would feel comfortable here.

Hamilton: A great school for math, economics and computer science. Works best for students with a definitive passion for wide-ranging academics, even though post-graduation plans can be highly varied. As you noted, offers some accounting and finance courses, but not as a focus. Statistically, a perfect reach.

URichmond: Worth highlighting because the school contrasts fairly neatly with many Northeastern LACs. That is, by curriculum (lots of business majors) and location, UR will manifest a relatively conservative environment, but might also be less independently intellectual. Impressions formed here could, in principle, inform the rest of her choices.

Lehigh and Bucknell: Probably will suit your daughter well, though visits will be important. By Princeton Review hyperbole, top “party schools” – though I mostly doubt their surveys truly produce meaningful results.

23

“She ran track for her first 3 years, year round, and has some other minor EC’s, like Mu Alpha Theta, but not a whole lot of EC’s.”

OP, you’ve been on CC a good while, so maybe this does’t need saying- but make sure you aren’t omitting other activities, thinking they don’t count. Local service, involvement in your cultural or religious groups, some small job, etc, can be included. Not just random participation or hobbies, but there may be something. And it’s not just quantity, but the quality of her engagement. There are ways to rethink how all this is listed.

A lot of colleges may be called party schools or whatever, but can still have a strong and effective conservative presence. You want to look beyond common reports, actually see what clubs, activities, guest lectures, etc, are on campus. Eg, my kids went to a work hard/party hard college, known as liberal/granola, but with a strong conservative subset. And while one maxed her weekend partying, the other headed for the library on Fri/Sat eves, were there were plenty of other kids studying.

24

What are your college selection criteria other than admission selectivity and the availability of business/accounting courses? There is no law that you have to enroll in the most selective college that accepts you. So if safeties and matches meet your needs, why bother to add high reaches at all?

One benefit that super selective colleges do tend to offer is excellent need-based aid. Is that what you’re after?

As for business/accounting courses, it’s a fact that many highly selective private colleges don’t offer them. Most of them also don’t offer majors in agriculture, criminology, nursing, or nutrition. They simply don’t fall within their “liberal arts” focus. But if you do want one of those majors, they’re available at many very good state universities (including some on your list). Architecture, business, engineering, nursing, etc. also are offered at some “elite” schools (such as Cornell). Business is offered even at a few LACs (like Richmond).

I wouldn’t think Notre Dame is out of reach. Ditto for Colby … but what’s the appeal of a LAC that doesn’t offer the business courses you want?

25

@WalknOnEggShells If you are looking for schools with ‘business’ course work in a liberal arts setting, College of the Holy Cross has an accounting major and minor and the school has similarities in feel to some of the others on your list. If your D is going to apply to the business schools at for instance BC and Villanova the math requirements they look for will be more stringent . Has she had calculus? They will want to see that.

26

Regarding lack of business classes at LACs, I don’t think it has anything to do with elitism, just think a LAC has a different mission. For your purposes, since you like the idea of a LAC but want business, Bucknell and Richmond, both on your list are schools to focus on. But kids heading into business from LACS without business programs are very well prepared with excellent critical thinking, writing and analysis skills. And keep in mind, that firms like JP Morgan, Goldman etc, are going to put you through training programs and teach you technical skills their way.

27

The economics/accounting track at Holy Cross is very strong, and I think the school also fits other criteria for your D well (culturally, athletics). I would suggest exploring it. Trinity could be another good option. I would also echo the sentiment that a solid liberal arts education focussing on any particular field can prepare you well for a career in “business”. I have friends who majored in Art History who are now investment bankers. Just focus on the best schools that are “right” for the student, that isn’t going to put an undue financial burden on the family or the student, focus on what excites you, and be pro-active when it comes to internships and “planting seeds” for post graduation life. Break a leg! You’ll do great.

28

@tk21769, admission selectivity is not one of my daughter’s major criteria. Let me explain how we got to where we are. I don’t think I did that in my first post.

I’ve been steering her away from the more selective schools the whole time, because most of them were financial reaches, and also because she has limited ECs. But recently, some relatives are showing signs of possibly chipping in substantial financial help. That might open up some possibilities that we didn’t think were realistic.

Even still, she’s not chasing selectivity. Some of her favorite schools have average stats that are a good bit below hers.
Since we’ve been ignoring the more selective schools, I don’t have a good feel for what it takes to get into them, beyond the published GPA and SAT scores.

She’s looking for sporty, relatively conservative schools with lots of school spirit. I’ve run a bunch of NPCs, and I know that we won’t be eligible for need-based aid until my second child is in school.

I see what you’re saying about agriculture, criminology, nursing, and nutrition, but I would argue that those are very nichey fields. Accounting is not. It plays a central role in all businesses. I plan to encourage all of my kids to take a least one or two courses in Computer Science, Economics, Accounting, and Finance, because I think they’re as fundamental as Math and Writing.

I think I agree with you about Colby. I love that school for some reason, but I did just check, and they have very few Accounting and Finance courses.

I think Richmond is a great example of a Liberal Arts college that has the right idea when it comes to Business. Richmond is high on my list, and she wants to do a visit.

29

@WalknOnEggShells, Don’t get swayed by a lack of accounting or finance courses. As was noted by @wisteria100, investment banks are putting very little weight on those skills as they are easily taught in the workplace - an MBA is no longer a calling card.

What they covet today are quantitative skills such as math and computer science majors and the ability to write and speak effectively which is well cultivated in an LAC.

30

Forgive me if I missed it, but I don’t think OP said she’s interested in investment banking. There are lots of ways to use a business degree outside of that very, very competitive IB environment.

But that said, if she does go to a school with few or no accounting courses, there’s always summer school to bring that learning.

31

what schools did she like/not like and why? Perhaps I missed that part

Also maybe Miami U - Ohio for more of a target/safety and could get some merit moeny

32

With respect to the study of business at liberal arts colleges, a few offer a program through Harvard Business School that can serve to supplement their home curricula:

http://blogs.wgbh.org/on-campus/2015/5/5/harvard-business-school-expands-online-initiative-liberal-arts-colleges/

33

I remember reading somewhere that Davidson was known for business and had connections with its proximity to Charlotte. Not sure but swear I read that somewhere.

34

@merc81, thanks for the list of schools a couple of pages back. All of them but Hamilton were on either my list or hers at one point, and a bunch of them are still high on her list.

St. Lawrence got taken off because she felt it was too far and too remote. I took Skidmore off because I thought she’d find it too liberal, but maybe we’ll give it a look. It’s close to home.

She feels Maine is too far and cold, so I was never able to convince her to go see Colby. Hamilton, even though the stats are just a little higher than Colby, feels more reachy to me, but it’s a good idea for a LAC reach. It’s probably out of reach academically, especially with her ECs, but I think it’s a good one to visit. If she loves it, she can take one more crack at the SAT.

Richmond, Lehigh, and Bucknell have been on the list the whole time, but we haven’t seen Bucknell yet. She liked Lehigh a lot, but saw Richmond before she was interested in the process. I think she’ll like all three. These are the types of schools that have kids she usually reacts positively too. Bucknell might be too remote for her, but we’ll definitely check it out.

I agree about Richmond being a little different. I love that school. She’s the one who has to attend, but Richmond would be very high on my list. Lehigh depresses me, but she loved it. She’s not a huge drinker, but she’s very sociable, and she loves the party schools. It’s a little scary sending a kid to a big party school, but I think she just wants to know that she’ll have things to do and won’t be bored.

Someone mentioned Holy Cross. That’s another one we plan to visit.

35

@xhaavic, thanks for reminding me about Holy Cross and Business. I think I knew that at some point, and forgot. I drove through there once, but never walked around. I’m going to try to get her up there soon. I think you’re right about it being a good fit. From what I know about the school, I think she’ll love it.

36

Excellent chance at all colleges in your original post EXCEPT UVA, which seems to need a really good reason to accept out of staters. My kid (Hispanic) had stats similar to yours, & got in BC(honors), NDame, Mich, & Northwestern. Waitlisted at Vandy, Dartmouth, UVa.

37

@lookingforward, thanks for the ideas. Yes, we’re going to dig up every legitimate EC we can. She actually has a few small things we can list, like a couple of different jobs.

My daughter’s not conservative in the sense that she’s going to freak out if people are partying around her. She actually likes the party schools. Hippies and granola kids probably would freak her out, though, if they were the majority. Personally, I think it would be good for her to be around some kids like that, but my attempts to get her interested in those types of schools have thus far failed.

I think you’re right. She might have to take some Business courses at a CC, depending on where she ends up. It aggravates me that she might have to do that, but it’s definitely a solution to the problem. I was also thinking that she could take Business courses while on an Exchange program, but I wonder if Accounting is slightly different in Europe.

38

@wisteria100, I’m going to try to get her up to Holy Cross. I just checked and they don’t have EA, which is good. I didn’t know about the extra Math requirements at BC and Villanova. She should be good, though. She’s taking Calc BC as a Senior. She’s most likely going to major in Math, and minor in Business or Computer Science.

39

@swampdraggin, she likes sporty, fairly conservative schools like Union, Lehigh, and Boston College. She doesn’t like artsy, granola/hippie type schools.

Miami U was on the list, but fell off a while back because of distance. It’s been making a comeback lately, though, because she’s looking at some other schools that are further away. They have EA, so if she’s going to look, we have to look now. We might be heading there next weekend!

40

^I was just going to suggest Miami U (my undergrad alma mater) Except that it’s a bit far, it does check all of the boxes . And the campus is gorgeous (if you like red brick) with at cute college town attached. I think it’s well worth a visit if you can go.