This is the part I don’t understand. Every example given about why there might have been “confusion” about the rules are things unrelated to the actual situation that occurred. A teacher asking you to stand up in class and read your completed assignment to the rest of the class after the due date isn’t the same as reading your (graded) answers to someone as they progress through the assignment. Students in the same section collaborating on an assignment they’re all turning in together isn’t the same as a student from one section reading graded answers to a student whose section hasn’t completed it yet. Peers reviewing other students’ rough drafts to give them pointers isn’t the same as reading graded answers to someone as they’re writing essays for the assignment.
I think most 15-year-olds understand that giving other students the answers to homework questions is wrong. It doesn’t sound like OP’s daughter denies giving her friend the answers. She just objects to her friend copying them word for word. But both are wrong. Unless this is the first homework that the students were expected to do entirely on their own I think that it’s reasonable for the teachers to expect that it was their own work.
There hasn’t been a lot said about the actual assignment. Was it difficult because the questions were complex or because the friend hadn’t read the book? Those things might matter to an appeals committee. If I were OP I’d try to get the academic dishonesty flag removed from the transcript before I worried about a C on the transcript.
Just reading this thread now. It seems your daughter acted in good faith and tried to help her friend …but unfortunately her trying to help overstepped what is allowed. I would want to know if the teachers formally/specifically discussed with each class what plagiarism is and what the school policies are at the start of the school year? If they weren’t discussed, were the rules laid out in any syllabus they received from the teacher? Even for kids in the future the the school should have a policy of teachers being very clear to students about exactly what is considered plagiarism, who will be held responsible, and what the penalties are. I think if your D understood the rules more clearly she may not have read her essay to her friend. Should she have known better? perhaps…but as a sophomore in HS (age 15 or so) she likely just thought it would be fine to help a friend.
If things are not favorably resolved I would ask the guidance counselor to discuss the circumstances behind any “academic dishonesty” notation on a transcript in his/her letter or recommendation to colleges (being sure he/she gets the facts exactly correct).
Honestly I don’t want to throw the other child under the bus but I believe it to be the second part of what you said. At least that’s what we are now starting to think. There has been a lot of excuses made as to why she copied, none of which is justified as far as we are concerned considering how much harm this has caused my child.
I shared the details of this thread with another person whose first reaction was to ask in bewilderment why the OP’s daughter was reading her completed assignment to another who had yet to do the assignment. The only plausible response was: To help her cheat.
The other person commented that the students were lucky that this was not a parochial school (or an elite private) because the punishment would likely have been much more severe.
This is the conversation I just had with her. She said they never had a discussion about this. She truly didn’t think what she did was wrong. She’s not being “ignorant”. She thought she was helping her friend understand what to do and that her friend would do it on her own. She said never once did the teacher or school ever explain to them in the way they she now knows is wrong. I don’t know what else to say. She really didn’t know.
The issue to me is what do you do if you lose the appeal? What is the next step? Go to the school board? The newspapers? I would want an attorney to help me navigate the appeal, and would not have any communications with the board without having an attorney present, including written communications. Your best chance of a favorable outcome is the appeals process so bring out the big guns/attorney. I would worry much more about disciplinary mark and would do everything I can to get that overturned even if the C remained.
The only intent that matters is whether or not the OP"s daughter willingly shared her completed assignment with one who had yet to do the assignment.
Whether or not the OP’s daughter intended that sharing–or lending–her work to another student who had not yet done the assignment to be used for cheating (plagiarism in this case) is irrelevant.
Yes we spoke to an attorney on Friday. He suggested filing the appeal since the superintendent said that was the next step. We are supposed to get that appeal first thing Monday morning. I will absolutely have the lawyer help with this.
I understand. But I also view it as a bit unrealistic to think that any reasonable junior high school student doesn’t understand the concept of cheating or in assisting another to cheat whether it is labeled as plagiarism or otherwise.
Again, if we were able to read both papers, I suspect that this discussion would come to an abrupt halt.
Why would reading the papers matter if everyone involved already said it was a copy and the other student admitted copying? Seems you just want me to post the papers for some reason which seems very odd.
I don’t think you should communicate at all without the lawyer, who should do the communicating for you. If there is a deadline for the appeal tomorrow, I hope the lawyer has time to meet. To save money and time you can write the appeal up and have the lawyer review and edit or add.
I feel as if you and your daughter are sliding back to a defense that is not really supportable. Your daughter, objectively, did do something wrong. Leniency at some schools depends on recognizing that.
You can argue she didn’t intent to facilitate cheating, but she did, and that is plain fact.
You can argue that education for the students on academic honesty was inadequate. Did she read what was posted by the teacher? I am not saying that was adequate education but technically it was provided. Did the content deal with lending/sharing?
Were the policies updated to relevance to COVID virtual learning or, for that matter, newer technologies? Perhaps they have been in place for 25 years.
Finally, has the school consistently applied the same standards and consequences? The issue of selective application of standards is interesting. A case could be made that leniency here is not selective application, but an opportunity to review protocols and improve education in an age of technology, virtual learning and more collaboration versus “sage on the stage” type learning.
But it remains objectively true that without your daughter sharing, the plagiarism could not have occurred, and amidst all of the other issues, I think that recognizing that and not making excuses is vital here.
I suspect your daughter’s friend didn’t read the book. But I don’t think it’s the fine points of plagiarism that you have to worry about. If your daughter sent an email to school officials that said she read her graded answers to a friend while the friend completed the same assignment then it’s the straight up cheating charge that she has to worry about. Because that’s what she admitted in writing that she did. Even if she convinces the school she didn’t intend for her friend to copy her answers word for word, she still provided her with the answers.
I wouldn’t care why the other child copied. I’d want to know why my child gave someone else answers to their homework. What did she think her friend, who had only a few hours left to complete the assignment, was going to do with them?
I think you need to see the Turnitin (or equivalent) analysis before doing anything further. Although you say it doesn’t matter because it has been acknowledged that the other student copied, it is the basis for what has happened, and I think it would be helpful for you, and your daughter, to see it. Certainly, any lawyer who becomes involved needs to see it. Most schools use Turnitin routinely these days. The analysis would simply be a copy of the other student’s work, highlighted to show material that is identical (word for word) with your daughter’s work (or any other source she copied).
Something that has been past over in the discussions was a teacher announcing in a class why OP’s daughter was late? Did I misread that? If this occurred, then this is very important info for the attorney. There may have been a violation of FERPA rights and could be a negotiating point.
My son just told me that as a computer science major, they were told explicitly that if they left their monitor on, and someone copied their code, then they were held equally responsible.
However, they were told this up front and in no uncertain terms.