<p>Almost by definition, a safety for admission will be a school where he is a top student, although if the school is large enough, it will have a substantial cohort of academic peers within the larger overall student body (especially if he chooses a “hard” major).</p>
<p>However, even at not-very-selective schools, the weakest college students will be better students than the weakest high school students at non-academically-elite high schools.</p>
<p>What about your in-state public universities?</p>
<p>“So does this make it sound like a safety for my son”</p>
<p>Absolutely not. Safety means safety net. A safety net with an 80% success rate is not safe. Naviance data for schools like Vanderbilt, Tufts, etc. that have a holistic admissions process may be misleading. You don’t know what other qualities the admitted students had. At your school, it’s likely that the students with great GPAs and scores all have great activities and essays too. But these are subjective, and you can’t know how yours will be perceived.</p>
<p>Again, he may well be admitted to all of these schools. But they’re not safeties.</p>
<p>We just went through the process this year with D with very similar stats, looking at dual degree in engineering and music. If considering music as a minor to engineering, both CMU and Case Western are worth looking at. Both should be a match, with Case closer to a safety. Case has very good opportunities for non-major music students, including scholarships if they agree to play in ensembles (must audition). JHU students minoring in music can sometimes arrange lessons at a Peabody, but it’s not a given and they are sometimes with grad students. They can participate in ensembles at JHU, but won’t be the same quality as Peabody. PM me if you want more specifics on our experience. </p>
<p>One way to think about safeties is that even if you are in the top rank of accepted students, if the acceptance rate is 13% (Vanderbilt) or 28.3% (UVA) there’s just too big a chance of being rejected even if historically kids with your son’s stats have gotten in. Don’t forget most Naviance data goes back a few years and most schools are getting more not less selective. You want to find at least one school that either has purely number based admissions or an acceptance rate over 50%. (And some would say even that is too risky.) I think EA applications are a great idea since an EA admissions is the best safety of all. </p>
<p>Thanks again everyone! So I understand why you are saying that those Naviance numbers don’t make those three schools safeties. So my question is, how far above the 75% should a student be in order for it to be a safety? I know that decisions are based on much more than just numbers, but that is the only concrete way for us to evaluate him vs the applicant pool. You never know if your ECs or recommendations will impress. </p>
<p>For example, for Michigan, if Naviance says avg accepted GPA is 4.3 and my son has 4.7, are you saying that makes it a match? So should we look for schools where avg GPA is more like 4.0? Their SAT avg is 2169 compared to his 2390. What sort of range would make the school safer? He is not going to be interested In schools that admit 60-70% of an overall pool, so those don’t make good choices. I have to check the info for Rochester and CMU to see if they look safer. Thanks again for any insight or suggestions. </p>
<p>If the admission process is holistic, then it is hard to see the school being a 100% safety even if the applicant is far above the 75th percentile. Also, if the school is divided into buckets of differing selectivity (e.g. different divisions or majors, as is common with state universities), the differences may not be visible in Naviance or other stats (e.g. San Jose State University has very different thresholds for computer science versus software engineering, or art - animation versus all other art majors; see <a href=“http://info.sjsu.edu/static/admission/impaction.html”>http://info.sjsu.edu/static/admission/impaction.html</a> ).</p>
<p>Two questions: What makes Rochester a safety? I’m just trying to figure this out, since their 75% SATs are about 2150, which I think is in line with some of these other schools.</p>
<p>Also, is it correct that the music scene at Rochester is separate from the music at Eastman? As in, separate ensembles? If so, does anyone know how good the Rochester groups are? Glad to hear it is a strong part of the culture; that is what my son is looking for, along with a high level of play. </p>
<p>It is my impression that Vanderbilt is very scores-based. I would think that this student’s scores would be highly likely to get him into Vandy.</p>
<p>Also, it would be helpful to you to look at the Common Data Set for each of these schools. You seem to be hyper- focused on where your son’s scores should lie in relation to the historic admission data. Of course scores are important, but they vary in importance based on the school. You’ll want to know what proportion of applicants and what proportion of the enrolling class had SAT scores in each quartile. </p>
<p>I agree on Vanderbilt. I know an accepted student from last year with strong SAT scores and grades, but really nothing else all that exciting and no hooks. But a sample size of one doesn’t make it a safety. I know everyone says you need to love your safety, but in this situation it seems likely the student might have to apply to one true safety that doesn’t thrill him with the knowledge that he is very competitive and probably will get into Vanderbilt or one of the others he is excited about. I think U of R is a fabulous choice, but a true safety? Not so sure about that. </p>
<p>Agree with the suggestions others have made. And you are smart not to listen to your relatives. Although it might seem impossible to believe that your kid would not be a shoo-in at a lot of the schools on his list based on his stats, remember that they are all rejecting many kids each year with similar (or better) scores and achievements. It’s just an unfortunate fact of supply and demand.</p>
<p>A great true safety for your son, although outside the east coast, would be Lawrence in Appleton, WI. Very strong music program, solid academics, and the ability to earn a dual degree in another field as well. I know several kids there (one of whom is an accomplished musician) and they love it.</p>
<p>For a true safety I am going to suggest Virginia Tech. I have visited it twice, and they just built an absolutely gorgeous new performing arts center. The engineering is strong and pervasive, but mostly I suggest it for the quality of life. Gorgeous campus, happy and cohesive student body, very arguably best food. I am pretty sure your son will not have to go to it, but I think there should be one honest to goodness safety on his list. My son came down to Bucknell vs Virginia Tech. He chose Bucknell, but it was agonizing. He loves Bucknell by the way, but I hesitate to suggest it because I really am not sure about the music side of the equation. VT seemed to really be enthused about music and mentioned it numerous times in their info session and tour. </p>
<p>I just worry about schools with less than fifty percent acceptance rates acting as safeties. My son was wait listed at two schools our guidance counselor thought were shoo ins and accepted by more competitive options. For a safety I would want more numeric based decision making (so a large school) and a high acceptance rate. </p>
<p>My son is at Rochester and is taking a piano class next semester at Eastman. You absolutely can take classes at Eastman. Some are audition some are not. </p>
<p>Although your son’s scores are likely to get him into Vanderbilt I would warn against considering it a safety. The Naviance results from his school are encouraging but, you never know. My son just finished his freshman year at Vanderbilt (loves it) and, checking Naviance I see that from his NY suburban high school the Vanderbilt results are all over the place. That said, kids with 2300-plus and top 5% GPAs tended to get in–but not all of them. The kid with a 35 ACT got in RD, the 34 ACT got waitlisted–both had GPAs in the top 5%… My conclusion: Vanderbilt is virtually impossible for hookless kids if they don’t have tippy-top scores and GPAs. But it is a strong match for those who do–at least in the northeast–even if ECs aren’t super-impressive. So, the odds strongly favor your son. Still it would be wise to have “safer” schools on the list as well. But you seem to already have a good sense of this. Best of luck to your son! </p>
<p>I recommend Rochester as a safety school. You said he wants to be with academic peers. U of R is an easier-to-get-into school than others of it’s caliber. He would be among academic peers. I think the school is just not on a lot of people’s radar, so it does not get as many applicants. Hence, admit rate is higher than most others you have listed.</p>
<p>Indiana, Wisconsin, Ohio State, etc. are all great schools, but somehow I have a feeling those are not the type of safeties you and your son are looking for.</p>
<p>I also think that he is very likely to get into Michigan. </p>
<p>Has he thought about NYU? So many music opportunities in the city, even if they are not directly connected with the school. Also, so many science/engineering opportunities in the city.</p>