“I would find that there were more courses offered at Swarthmore?” " offers more advanced level courses than Penn"
If you reread his post, that was what he said. Swarthmore has a wide spectrum of the needed offerings. A Swarthmore student can choose to utilize the Quaker consortium offerings but for the vast majority of students, there is no need to. There is not much lacking in the offerings at Swarthmore. It stands on its own quite well.
http://www.swarthmore.edu/sites/default/files/assets/documents/registrar/course_schedule_current.pdf
http://www.upenn.edu/registrar/timetable/
Using math as an example, since math is one of the more common concerns about running out of courses for a student who enters already advanced in math, we see (not including independent study and similar courses, supplemental courses, or seminars):
Swarthmore: 6 unique upper-level math courses (56, 63(x2), 67(x3), 75, 102, 103).
Penn: 11 unique upper-level math courses (312(x2), 314, 320, 360, 361, 370, 371, 410, 420, 432, 460) and 17 unique graduate level math courses (502, 508, 546, 570, 580, 594*, 600, 602, 608, 618, 620, 622, 644, 656, 660, 694, 752; * = cross listed with another department)
Granted, it may be uncommon for Swarthmore (or Haverford or Bryn Mawr) students to take courses at Penn because most are not super-advanced enough to run out of courses at Swarthmore, and because commuting to Penn and scheduling issues may be deterrents.
Hello everyone! Last night I started tabulating a list with all schools recommend in this thread and I got to number 53… wow! I asked S to have a look and he removed a few based on location so we are now down to 46, with 17 being universities. Obviously he will not visit/apply all of them, but it’s a start so he can do more research, read their websites and online reviews, write to school’s departments and ask more questions, etc.
I decided to start our visits with MN first, where we could check St Olaf and Carleton (“rural” LACs), Macalester (urban LAC) and U of MN (big university). I also want to check Lawrence University and U of WI in Wisconsin, but I don’t know if we can have all done in one trip only. Regardless, we will stop on the way back to visit UChicago and NW as well. Hopefully, after these few visits he will be able to narrow his preferences more, rural/suburban/urban, LAC/universities (or both!)… We’ll see how it goes.
I really appreciate the discussion and all suggestions in this thread; like I mentioned, I made a note of all schools recommended here and they are part of a (very big) list of schools that we will research. THANKS!!!
You’re approaching this in exactly the right way. Very curious to see how your story turns out.
Beware of shoving two many schools into one trip – burnout.
It’s a good idea to visit a few of various types, to help him sure up his views on that dynamic.
After that, Re: universities, if they are still in the running:
a few have been mentioned here, but there are undoubtedly numerous others that would be suitable, If your son wants to go that route. I’ve kept down mentioning a number of them, due the thread title. Also I don’t know, I haven’t researched them for this.
Screening shouldn’t be that difficult though. There are only 30 top-30 universities. Chop off the few (if any) that he can’t get into. Then the ones that are obviously less suitable, due to undesirable location and other non-academic reasons. Consider probable adequacy of social situation. Maybe apply size criteria, if he develops that. With the rest, screen for offerings in areas of likely interest. Then look at curriculum to see if there are preferences (specific required courses? "Core? No requirements?. etc)
When he’s done with this he should have a manageable number, which he can look into further and screen from there.
And then visit what seem to be some of the “best” ones.
The Swarthmore/Haverford/Bryn Mawr consortium is very much alive, but the ability to take classes at Penn is not heavily used by students at any of the colleges. And it’s not because their faculties are so clearly superior to Penn’s. It’s because the public transportation options between the institutions are not really that good or that convenient, and the vacation and exam schedules do not necessarily sync up. You would probably have to block out a minimum of 4-5 hours to be able to attend a single 60-90 minute class session at Penn, and your transportation costs would be $13+ per class session.
“And it’s not because their faculties are so clearly superior to Penn’s”
Again, where has anybody stated this??
I know your S decided against CA, but I visited the Claremont Consortium schools with my D in March: Harvey Mudd, Pomona, Pitzer, Claremont-McKenna and Scripps (all women). It is a consortium of 5 schools, the students can attend one school, cross-register at any of the other 4, can actually major at another school, beautiful campuses, smart kids, etc. I suggest at least looking on line at these schools. There is skiing in the nearby mountains, hiking, etc. We also visited Occidental, just because we were there and it is staying on our list. It says it is located in LA, but LA is big and OXY is not in the middle of the city.
Interdisciplinary courses that combine math/statistics with other areas of study such as political science or international relations are fairly common in liberal arts colleges of all sizes. Majors often morph into double majors or concentrations which feature synergies across departmental silos. Students are encouraged to go where their interests lead them.
At this point, though, your son should focus less on his potential major, which is likely to change and change again as he is exposured to more possibilities, and more on the culture and environment of each school. As he begins visiting he’ll be able to identify the nuanced points of differentiation. Often isolating a favorite will lead to others with similar cultures but with varying levels of selectivity.
I am from MN and even though I did not go to school there nor did my kids, there are a lot of GREAT schools. I am with those who said to take a good look at Macalester. I have several freinds who went there and several who now work there. I love the school and location (how could I not? I grew up in that neighborhood!)
“Interdisciplinary courses that combine math/statistics with other areas of study such as political science or international relations are fairly common in liberal arts colleges of all sizes.”
If that’s true, then OP’s son will be above to find them there when he looks at the Registrar’s list of courses actually given last semester. Which I would recommend, in each case.
Great responses so far! I just wanted to add that my ds16 has many qualities in common with your son, with the big
exception of your son’s math skills. ;0) Regardless, you may find the thread I started seeking advice on colleges for my son helpful. Many of the same schools were discussed and my son shares your son’s views on many schools.
DS16 is finishing his first year at Haverford this week. He chose the school for fit (academic, environmental, social) and has had a fantastic year. He has never been happier socially, feels challenged academically, and despite the school not offering as many courses or opportunities as other schools in international relations etc. he feels it offers enough. He has already taken one course at BM and plans to take advantage of the full consortium. DS knew he wanted a collaborative LAC, but in the end he was more confident in his decision by choosing a consortium as it opened up possibilities socially and academically. Good luck!
http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/1812302-need-advice-on-school-choices-p1.html
Although I am no fan of US News, it is one ranking – putting aside the ultra competitive schools for admission – top Poli Sci programs would include Michigan, Berkeley, Wisconsin, Texas, Ohio State. George Washington is stronger in Pol Sci than the rest of the school is, and American is quite good as well.
But really, Poli Sci, like Econ, English and History, is a staple of the liberal arts education. Many schools will have solid to excellent programs.
@doschicos - D wants to study the humanities, primarily art history and comparative literature and is not very interested in post-modernism - preferring Renaissance and early modern stuff.
Grinnell, for example, recently had a couple of faculty retire that specialized in those fields and eras and they haven’t yet been replaced; Davidson – while strong in the humanities overall – was not particularly strong in art history, and Swarthmore only has around four faculty in their art history department. The bottom line is, it can be sort of limiting if there are only one or two profs teaching the stuff you are particularly interested in (and worse still if you don’t like either or both of them!)
Ultimately, D17 decided to concentrate on smaller, private research unis.
@LoveTheBard I’m not claiming it is one size fits all when it comes to LACs. Just like everywhere else, one needs to do their research based on fit and offerings. All research universities aren’t going to be good for all majors either. And even at a larger school, the prof specializing in one’s area of interest could depart at any time. But, I could point out LACs that are very good in Art History and Comparative Literature just off the top of my head. Bryn Mawr, in the consortium with Swarthmore, would be one. Williams College would be another.
I’m also thinking that if someone really wants to drill down on one specific area of art history to the exclusion of all others, maybe the path to go is by way of a BFA?
Huh? That’s like suggesting that if I want to study medieval Latin poetry, I should get a BFA in Creative Writing. A BFA isn’t a bizarre credential for someone interested in Renaissance art to have – it could even be a valuable one, if it came from a very classically oriented program, of which there are not so many – but it’s hardly a mainstream credential, and there would have to be a bunch of supplemental work.
I looked at a few visual art BFA programs, and they seem to require a basic introductory art history course and then 2-4 additional art history electives (with room in the curriculum for additional art history or history electives, if desired). So a BFA could work for a student who was really interested in actual painting and drawing, as well as in the art history, but it would hardly be the mainstream choice.
So, even in a BFA program, the art history emphasis would be on breadth rather than depth. Is that correct?
I think a student could fashion a program with depth, but that would be the student’s choice.
With a BFA program, however, the student would have to spend countless hours producing art. Spending some meaningful amount of time drawing, painting, sculpting, and maybe engraving would probably be valuable for someone interested in Renaissance art, but doing that for half or more of your undergraduate credits seems like overkill if your interest is the Renaissance.
However, suitable schools should have decent offerings in all of his possible majors of interest. There is no sense in going to a school that would immediately require him to drop his current majors of interest because there are insufficient offerings in those subjects.