re#210:
"If that’s true, then OP’s son will be above to find them there when he looks at the Registrar’s list of courses actually given last semester. Which I would recommend, in each case. "
That was supposed to read, “will be able to find them”.
Not sure how that happened…
I haven’t read the whole thread, but should jump in to correct the record and offer an opinion
Re #220:
Appreciate the correction, but this isn’t true. The relationship between what’s listed in a registrar’s course list and what is actually taught is not always straightforward. At my shop, for instance, I have taught four different courses over the last six years with the same number and title. This is not unusual – in a small department like mine (I’m at a top-tier liberal arts college, a peer of Swarthmore), we often teach advanced topics courses as “whatever I’m thinking about these days” and have the flexibility to vary topics according to student interest and goals. I wouldn’t be surprised if it’s like that in some other fields as well.
Mathematics is somewhat different, though, in that any faculty member (with doctoral training) knows enough to teach a course on most any subject in the usual curriculum at an advanced undergraduate level. So our course offerings are driven more by our general intellectual interests (and those of our students) than by our research areas.
On another note, I should mention that in math, choosing one’s undergraduate institution based on faculty representation in one narrow subfield of initial interest is not really a good idea. I recommend that any student who is serious about studying mathematics at a high level aim first for broad exposure to the subject, with a view toward developing general mathematical maturity/sophistication and (more importantly) intellectual independence. The vast majority of the math I have learned has not been in any course, but has come about because I wanted to learn something and was prepared to sit down and teach it to myself. I always advise students to approach their education with the knowledge that some day they will “run out of courses.”
All that said, I do have some specific college recommendations for a student who is interested in intermingling math and politics (something I happen to know a bit about):
LAC: Union college in NY (perhaps the best choice), Carleton College, Harvey Mudd.
Universities: Tufts University, UC Irvine.
Not sure how many of those were mentioned, but I do know faculty at all of them who are good teachers and study this subject.
EDIT: Please forgive the long-windedness! I didn’t have time to compose a shorter post 
Union College has a heavily influential fraternity/sorority presence which is heavily influential on campus life from what I’ve heard from colleagues/friends who attended. There’s also heavy social competition as a consequence.
Something which OP has expressed as something he didn’t want.
ok, last two semesters.
The best indication a course will be available to take, when you can and want to take it, is if it has been routinely available to take.
If not: it might be available if some professor decides to give it.
Or it might not.
Bad bet.
Imperfect world, but that’s what I’d look at.
My main caution is do NOT rely solely at course catalog. Because they list lots of courses that are no longer, or not often actually given. At least that was true at D1s LAC. Some visiting prof had that interest gave that course. Now he’s gone, and now nobody gives that course. But you Can look at course catalog to see how many desired courses are listed as “offered every other year”. The fewer times, and less predictable times, a course is offered, the likely/certain it is that you will be able to take it.
An advanced level course offered once every two years probably gives the student one chance to take it (during his/her junior and senior years). Too bad if it has a time conflict with some other course that the student needs or wants to take (that may also be offered only once every two years).
Not really an issue as a time conflict is one legitimate reason a student can use to convince the Prof offering such an advanced course to allow him/her to take it as a “private reading” course. Did that for a few advanced courses which conflicted with other required courses during my undergrad career. Never an issue IME.
At same school, D1 did not get somebody to do this, for what she wanted (no interest) and it was an issue, for her. Meaning: hit and miss.
Suggest do not rely on this. Bad bet.
This issue is even worse in some universities which is a reason why some undergrad classmates I knew transferred into our LAC from universities such as Georgetown, Brandeis, JHU, etc.
Incidentally, one reason why I turned down admission to some universities was precisely because they had far less coverage for my academic areas of interest AND were much more expensive to boot.
Also, while some cites the superiority of larger universities because they offer graduate classes, keep in mind that what may be considered a graduate class at some universities may actually have the same/lower levels of rigor/coverage than a comparable advanced or sometimes even intermediate level course at a respectable/elite LAC. This is something academically advanced students need to be wary of or else they may find they are repeating what was essentially undergrad or in some cases…even HS level material for them.
This was one reason why none of my LAC classmates who ended up at elite PhD programs in their field had any issues. In fact, quite a few were able to skip the intro and even some intermediate-level graduate classes straight into the advanced courses meant for advanced PhD students preparing for their comps in their first year.
@doschicos - Bryn Mawr was on D’s list; Williams was too remote, too hilly, and no merit aid.
@circuitrider - BFA? Ummm, no.
D wants to study art – not produce it! @JHS’s analogy is spot on.
As for course catalogs, I agree that they can be misleading. Best to check a school’s schedule of classes – many schools have them available online to browse, even for past and future academic years.
Back in the Stone Age, we took courses because we heard good things about the teacher; it almost didn’t matter what was being taught. You wanted to know what made them tick, what drew them to that field and to perhaps have some of that intellectual curiosity rub off on you.The liberal arts were traditionally supposed to open our minds not close them. But, I suppose this is the logical consequence of open curriculums. Who needs faculty or department heads when everyone is an expert on something before they even set foot on campus?
Hello everyone! Just wanted to write a quick update, S is working hard researching websites and online reviews, writing to schools asking about courses offerings, and leaning more about possible options. He is in fact more open to different schools now (meaning some specific universities that have ID majors he is interested in) and is updating his list. I think we’ll be able to visit MN in a couple of weeks and check a mix of small LACs and U of Minnesota so he can have an idea of what kind of school he likes more.
From my part, I would like to know more about schools in a consortium (NE/Midwest)… other than Amherst/U of Mass (which it seems to work very well) and Haverford/Swath/Penn (not so easy to make it work), are there other ones mixing LACs and universities? I think that could also be a good option for S, small rigorous classes in a LAC and the availability of a bigger U if necessary.
Thanks a lot everyone, there is so much information in this thread, I’m learning a lot!
Don’t forget Bryn Mawr in the Quaker Consortium in with Haverford, Swat, Penn. Great college with a lot of strong, well regarded offerings. And really, it isn’t that challenging as others would lead you to believe with the exception of Penn classes taking some juggling. The rest have the Blue Bus that provides transportation.
There really aren’t a lot of true consortiums across the country besides Mass 5 Colleges, Claremont Colleges and Quaker Consortiums.
Some colleges will allow you to cross register for a class (Wellesley/MIT, St. Olaf/Carleton, and Barnard/Columbia as examples) or spend a semester on another campus, but true consortiums are few and far between.
FWIW, Barnard/Columbia is much more intertwined than most of those other arrangements. Barnard and Columbia are formerly affiliated, and are right across the street from each other. No transportation time required. While IIRC Amherst students on average utilize their consortium less than any of the other private members of its consortium, Barnard students on average take a significant # courses at Columbia. They have a common registration process together. There are whole majors that are actually housed at the other school. Not that OP’s son cares.
Re: Quaker, I understand that Bryn Mawr/ Haverford are actually very tight & work well (& often) together. IIRC, my wife had a colleague who attended Bryn Mawr and actually lived at Haverford!
What may be of more interest: It’s been a good while now since D1 was considering MacAlester, but if memory serves a Mac student can at least theoretically take a course not offered there at U Minnesota. OP’s son might want to look into this. It may not be true, my memory isn’t what it used to be, and it was a while ago now. And even if true, it may not be that easy to actually do it (academic calendars, approval process, etc). Might be worth investigating though.
When people talk of a Swat or Amherst student not using their consortium to often, IMO one shouldn’t read that as the consortiums don’t work. One should read that as an indication that most students’ academic needs are being met just fine at the institution of residence. It’s nice to know all those courses are available and possible but if you don’t need it because you have plenty of interesting and challenging options on campus, you don’t need it. It shouldn’t be a knock to a consortium.
Bryn Mawr/Haverford and Columbia/Barnard are too pairings that have a lot of overlap because of 1) proximity and scheduling and 2) shared majors. In the Haverford/Bryn Mawr Bi-College system, there is a lot of cross registration in both directions. I get the feeling, however, that a lot of Barnard students take Columbia coursework but not the other way around.
Regarding consortium arrangements, Brown and RISD (Rhode Island School of Design), whose campuses are adjacent to one another, have a 5-year dual degree program: http://risd.brown.edu/. Also, for students who are not in that joint program there is some cross enrollment. As a student earning her BFA in industrial design at RISD, my daughter took two 2 or 3 courses at Brown. One of those courses sparked her interest in environmental design, something for which she was recognized with an award at her RISD graduation, and which proved to be an interest that she emphasized in her post-degree career.
@agatha1939, I would caution you against making assumptions about location based on your kid’s reaction to individual campuses. Just because a kid likes one school which happens to be urban, doesn’t mean he will like all urban schools, and of course the same is true for rural and suburban.
People are inclined to classify schools by criteria that are meaningful to THEM, not necessarily to the student. Hence the number of parental posts here expressing puzzlement that students can possibly be genuinely interested in schools A, B, an C. (Frequently this is followed up by an implication that they “must” be prestige hounds.)
My kid, for example, liked Brown, Dartmouth, the U of C, Yale, and Williams, but disliked Princeton, Columbia, Cornell, and Amherst. Every school has its own flavor.
Actually, the MIT/Wellesley cross-registration agreement allows one to cross-register for more than one class.
One HS classmate practically took all her major/core courses in CS and math at MIT as she exhausted Wellesley’s offerings early and she initially wanted to attend MIT, but was rejected. Opting for Wellesley was a way for her to get an MIT CS education at the levels she was capable of despite the MIT rejection.
That is somewhat true.
However, there are a fair number of Columbia students who take courses for Barnard due to major(I.e. Dance major is offered through Barnard), some special interesting courses, or due to perceptions among some Columbia undergrads that Barnard courses are easier(not necessarily according to some Columbia undergrads who actually took some Barnard classes).
My understanding is that the Baltimore schools allow some cross registration. Towson, Hopkins, Loyola, Goucher are all fairly close. Don’t know how often people take advantage of it. I don’t think they make it convenient by having the same schedules, finals, breaks.
Columbia students overall take almost the same # credits at Barnard as Barnard students take at Columbia.
There are many reasons, including those mentioned above, plus scheduling convenience, a particular good course/ good teacher, etc.
However, since there are many more students at Columbia, Barnard students clearly take more credits per student at the other school, on average.
I think the Albany/Troy/Schenectady area schools also have some sort of course arrangement.
Maybe course/ sharing/ consortiums is a topic that deserves its own thread. Too last to check, but a search will probably show such threads from the past.
" last"
That should be “lazy”.
That’s the second time this has happened.
DId CC get one of those auto-spelling correct things, like they have on phone text messaging, recently??