Yes, that’s why I wish he would consider bigger schools, there’s always a group for everybody… but so far he is only considering small AND rural (at least, urban would give him more options…). But I like your suggestion and will ask him to call the clubs of those schools and then we can go from there. Thanks!
@agatha1939 your son has a long list of criteria. It might be a useful exercise to prioritize them (including strength of the program he wants to study and academic options in case he changes his major) and determine must-haves versus nice-to-haves.
The ironic part is despite Oberlin’s being considered “too lefty” by OP’s S which is understandable, it has long been considered one of the most LGBTQ friendly colleges in the nation even before I entered in the mid-'90s.
Several undergrad classmates, especially those from the more conservative parts of the Midwest/South cited this as one of their major factors for applying to and attending Oberlin over other LACs or even larger universities. And this was in the mid-late '90s when LGBTQ activism was nowhere near the level of mainstream consciousness that it has been in the last decade.
When I read his desired qualities, I immediately thought of Bowdoin, where my S graduated from a year ago. Smart kids, not competitive/cut-throat, no Greek life, small class sizes, cold weather, trees. And great food! S’s main EC was music, and he participated all four years at Bowdoin, even though he did not major in it.
His number 1 request is NICE kids. He wants to be in a school where kids are smart/intellectual but also help each other (not competitive). This is the first thing he will tell everyone who asks him about schools. His HS environment really makes him sad
After that, he wants LAC (small classes with discussions) with strong math and a good music program (where he can participate without being a major).
Number 3 would be cold weather, he likes snow (we lived a few years in Canada, loved it).
He does prefer rural, but I think if we find an urban campus with lots of trees he would be OK… but he wants the “campus” feel we see in movies.
What math is he in as a high school senior?
Holy Cross - fits your criteria on a number of points
Moderate, Smart kids, Strong poli sci department with Washington D.C. semester and an honors program for upper classmen, Cold weather & snow for sure, really nice kids, active LGBTQ group on campus supported by administration and alums, good amount of LGBTQ faculty/staff as identified on web-site, Kids work hard but are not cut-throat, No Greek life. Don’t know a lot about the music program, but they do offer a music scholarship, so assuming the program is fine, and they are building a new arts center, and did I say really really nice kids.
The US school that is most identified with Oxbridge-style (2-person) tutorials is Williams. Williams is also one of the top math LACs. Williams also qualifies (very easily) under the “cold weather”, “not urban”, and “no Greek life” criteria.
Your son has apparently determined that Williams is too “preppy/jocky”. Yet he has reached the opposite conclusion about … Colby ?? Colby would rank quite highly on most people’s lists of “schools like Williams”. People who apply to Williams routinely apply to Colby (which is slightly less selective) as well.
If your son is statistically minded, he might find the following numbers interesting:
You could certainly argue that Williams is “jocky”; the US Dept. of Education’s database shows that 747 of 2070 students were varsity athletes, which is 36%. For comparison, the numbers at Colby were 664 out of 1857, which is … 36%.
https://ope.ed.gov/athletics/#/institution/search
You could also make a case that Williams is “preppy”. A recent NYTimes analysis found that 18.1% of Williams students were from the Top 1% income bracket. For comparison, the number at Colby was … 20.4%.
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/01/18/upshot/some-colleges-have-more-students-from-the-top-1-percent-than-the-bottom-60.html
I know you live in Virginia and specifically said LAC but has he/you considered Georgetown? Some of the truly nicest students I have every encountered and very large/accepting Gay community. Though it is in Washington DC the campus is self-contained. Offers everything academically your son is looking for and has a active music presence as well.
@ucbalumnus I will have to confirm with him, but he’s taken BC calculus and Discrete Math and is planning to take Linear Algebra (?) this year. He also took (and LOVED) all statistics courses available in his school and was complaining that nothing higher will be available for him this year.
Even though he’s very strong in math and I worry he may run out of classes in small LACs, he says since he’s planning to double major he will be busy with other classes anyway, so he’s not that worried with rigor. But I do know he likes stats way more than pure math, which is also another reason I would prefer an university, there aren’t many schools offering stats majors.
I asked him to research some schools’ courses list and let me know what he thinks.
I agree with you, from their websites I see NO difference between Williams, Bowdoin, Colby, etc… who knows how he reached that conclusion? But that’s not set in stone, I want him to visit all these schools before making a decision to apply or not. Thanks!
Is Brown on his list?
I think you have crafted a great list. Haverford came to mind immediately. Look at all 3 Maine schools. They are, in more ways than most students at them like to think, more similar than not, but he may pick up on something at one of them that really grabs him.
Agree that Wesleyan and Vassar should make his list and maybe Bard? They are all a little more countercultural than what’s on your list, but visiting them (and possibly Earlham ) might help him establish where how mainstream a school he’s looking for.
Some LACs (like Amherst, Swat and Haverford from your list) are in a consortium with universities that offer more, and more advanced (grad level) courses. So that’s something to consider.
This increases the risk of running out of math courses at a LAC with a small math department (a few LACs do offer math courses that cover what would ordinarily be graduate level material, but most do not). In addition, at a larger university, he will skip most of the large lower level math courses and take the smaller upper level math courses relatively early (same with statistics, since the prerequisites of upper level statistics courses are lower level math courses).
My D1 had very similar profile and interests. Based on her experience, at a larger LAC, I give a “+1” on above post #34. I would strongly recommend he consider a university.
You should check course listings ( and registrar’s list of courses actually given, to see if they actually give those listed courses) in areas of his probable interest. In addition to advanced stats, optimally with some slanted to social sciences, somebody like him is likely to become interested in areas such as Game Theory and Positive Political Theory. Many LACs will not offer courses in both these areas, but many (but not all) universities will. Don’t know if it is still the case but U Rochester was “king” in Positive Political Theory at one time, and IIRC it offers substantial scholarships to some high-capability students.
He might check out U Michigan and Northwestern.
Particularly this program at Northwestern:
http://www.mmss.northwestern.edu/undergraduate/
I just came back from a tour that visited many of the schools mentioned above. For “Nice” kids - hands down: Macalester, Carleton and Haverford. Carleton and Haverford have truly beautiful, and more traditional, campuses. Haverford is my absolute favorite!! Mac’s is more condensed because it’s in the city. All are very LGBTQ friendly!
At Haverford, your S could easily take classes at Bryn Mawr, which most kids do. We took the blue bus back and forth a couple times and it’s so fast and easy. Also the train to UPenn is just a short walk from campus, and I bet that Penn would have all of the math classes he could ever dream of taking, and is also in the consortium along with Swathmore.
My D sat in on classes at several schools. Her Carleton class was 2 hours long, yet she said she “never wanted it to end” - it was a small discussion-based philosophy class on time travel. There were about 10 kids and they all encouraged her to participate. I highly recommend that he sit in on a math class when he visits any school. You might as well gather as much data as you can from each visit.
At Macalester, a really friendly group of students sitting next to us in the cafeteria talked to us and even volunteered to show D the theater after lunch, which wasn’t covered earlier on the tour.
You should also look at Vassar, they have a higher acceptance rate for males. You should check out their math offerings first, though.
As for Reed, they have a higher acceptance rate than some of the East coast schools. It’s in Portland - so chilly and rainy, if he likes that kind of weather. Reed you definitely have to visit to see if his cup of tea. The stress culture is notorious here (kids brag to each other how much work they have). But they are a very intellectual bunch.
Oh, and D hung out with a freshman at Haverford from her high school and her friends. They described the students there as a little awkward and nerdy.
A school I liked for my son as a back-up to Haverford was Lawrence University in Appleton WI. http://www.lawrence.edu/ A small LAC with a music conservatory. Seems like a friendly place, but we did not get to visit - so I can’t speak firsthand.
Unlike most schools, Lawrence offers non-binding early decision with results available in mid-Decemeber. We found most schools that offer EA did not make results available until the next year. It was nice to have a Lawrence’s early decision in hand before the end of the year.
Did he look at Hamilton? Seems like it would be a great match for him.