Need opinions FAST, please! UNC-CH vs. Univ of Missouri, Columbia

Parents Forum
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<p>I'm surprised by the Mizzou residency information. I actually checked their web site, and it looks more difficult to gain in-state residency than what you've been told, but maybe they've changed their rules and haven't updated their site (or I'm simply reading the information incorrectly).
<a href="http://admissions.missouri.edu/costsAndFinancialAid/costs/residencyRequirements/feeRules.php%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://admissions.missouri.edu/costsAndFinancialAid/costs/residencyRequirements/feeRules.php&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>Cheers' above post about making those lists would be very worthwhile.</p>

<p>Good luck with your decision. (By the way, while UNC-CH is selective, most especially for OOS, that percentage for OOS is actually 18%+, not less than 15%.)</p>

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<p>Or is the issue OOS admits vs. OOS % that attend? Machts nichts, as either way UNC is a tough admit.</p>

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<p>dudedad: You're correct--it is a tough admit; actually, I was just listening to a talk on NPR with 2 professors from UNC-CH, and they commented that UNC-CH accepts less than 1/3 of those who apply from in-state, and only 1 in 10 of those who apply from out of state (at least, that's what they quoted just now).</p>

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<p>How awful.</p>

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<p>mini: Why awful? Chapel Hill is the flagship campus of a NC university-wide system that has 15 other campuses. More and more top in-state students are not only applying, they're choosing to go to Chapel Hill--as their first choice. The flagship campus of any public university should be very appealing to top students, both in-state and out-of-state; as such, it becomes increasingly more selective. (And, at least in NC, there are 15 other campuses that have their own strengths and which are easier admits, if one wants to go the public route.)</p>

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<p>I'm biased, as a UNC alum, but I also want to let you know that you don't only have the ability to take classes at Duke as a Carolina student, but you may also opt to take classes at NCState. Not many undergraduate students take advantage of these options (probably in part that you need to drive to get to either), but it is a great option to have when you want to specialize in something and your university doesn't have the exact class you'd like to take.</p>

<p>I'm not sure if location (i.e. geography not based on city-proximity) matters to your D or not, but Carolina is great in being only 2.5 hours to the beach and ~3-4 hours to the Blue Ridge mountains. Best of both worlds!</p>

<p>I definitely know which I would choose, but I've been a Tar Heel fan since elem. school! ;)</p>

<p>Good luck to your D in her decision-making process. You really can't go wrong, she will be able to find her place at either institution!</p>

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<p>ophiolite: Good point about NCSU. Students at Duke and at UNC have the option of taking the Robertson bus to either campus, which runs back and forth every half hour, I believe, on the weekdays, and every hour on the weekends (up until around 11 pm, I think?). A student probably would need a car, though, for NC State.</p>

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<p>"mini: Why awful? Chapel Hill is the flagship campus of a NC university-wide system that has 15 other campuses. More and more top in-state students are not only applying, they're choosing to go to Chapel Hill--as their first choice."</p>

<p>It's awful when a flagship university accepts fewer than half its applicants, because when it does so, in my experience, it almost always does so at the expense of economic, racial, and ethnic diversity. It's not like the majority of students who were rejected can't do the work (we know that is false simply by virtue of the fact that in previous years they would have been accepted). </p>

<p>Greater numbers of rejections (which should not necessarily be confused with higher selectivity) is not an unmitigated good, even for the students who are accepted. In my state, that has resulted in a campus which is substantially less diverse, and where campus conversations, both in and out of classroom, suffer as a result. In other words, quality declines.</p>

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<p>mini: That's too bad about your state. Perhaps you should gather support and work with your legislature to try to change that. </p>

<p>The University of NC system receives ~40% support from the State of NC (that would be the taxpayers). Consequently, ~82% of UNC-CH's undergraduate population is from in-state; this is one of the reasons people work hard to maintain that 82%, which is much higher than any other top public in the country. So we do our bit for NC's students. In addition, this is a fairly wide state, stretching from the mountains to the coast; as such, its residents are quite diverse, both economically and racially/ethnically.</p>

<p>I believe it's a good thing when the flagship university is appealing to the top students of its state and, consequently, becomes ultimately more selective. Ideally, a state system would and should want to retain its top in-state students. I think it's also a good thing that Chapel Hill has tried to keep its undergraduate population relatively low (~16,000), in comparison to many other top public universities. Of the top 5 publics, only UVA is smaller in undergraduate population (~12,000). </p>

<p>In addition, a public university will always be more economically and racially diverse than will a private university. You can convince yourself that this is not the case, but you would be kidding yourself. </p>

<p>You are suggesting that Chapel Hill is not economically, racially, or ethnically diverse, since it is so academically selective with its in-state students. In so doing, you are making the automatic assumption that "poor" students (relatively speaking), and non-Caucasians aren't competitive students, academically, which--when I hear that type of assumption-- always seems very offensive to me. Your own stereotypical viewpoint/bias is showing here, I'm afraid.</p>

<p>I will add, too, that because the NC taxpayers support their University system so heavily, the in-state cost to attend UNC is very low (and nowhere even close to the $40,000+ of private schools). I have also discussed, in other threads, Carolina's commitment to financial aid, most especially with the Carolina Covenant.</p>

<p>Once again, our system has 15 other campuses, which also have their own individual strengths (ie, engineering, textiles, and design at NCSU; marine science at UNC-Wilmington; strong performing and visual arts at East Carolina; etc). Many highly qualified in-state students <em>choose</em> to also attend these other schools that offer programs that, either UNC-CH doesn't, or does--but perhaps with a different focus. </p>

<p>Once again, I'm sorry about your own state university and its decline in quality. You should work on that.</p>

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<p>A couple of comments. UNC along with Duke and UVA have traditionally been among the leaders of top flight universities in the number of minorities accepted in their entering classes as determined by the Journal of Blacks in Higher Education. In doing so UNC has entered the enmity of the Center for Equal Opportunity (sic). </p>

<p>Secondly, UNC is one of the absolute leaders in making itself accessible to low income students. See the Carolina Covenant at: <a href="http://www.unc.edu/carolinacovenant/%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.unc.edu/carolinacovenant/&lt;/a&gt;.&lt;/p>

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<p>I know all about the Carolina Covenant, and I think it is great! I have also seen private universities - including Duke - become less economic diverse over time, even as tuition discounts have increased. UVA, I believe, enrolls the smallest percentage of Pell Grant recipients of any flagship university in the country. </p>

<p>In my state, this is exacerbated, of course, by the very small number of African Americans to begin with, to the point that now, a non-athlete African-American at the University of Washington is a statistical anomaly.</p>

<p>"You are suggesting that Chapel Hill is not economically, racially, or ethnically diverse, since it is so academically selective with its in-state students. In so doing, you are making the automatic assumption that "poor" students (relatively speaking), and non-Caucasians aren't competitive students, academically, which--when I hear that type of assumption-- always seems very offensive to me. Your own stereotypical viewpoint/bias is showing here, I'm afraid."</p>

<p>Provide data, please. Compare UNC to its non-flagship counterparts. (I actually have the data for UNC-Chapel Hill, Charlotte, and Asheville, for those receiving need-based aid and for race, and the differences are quite striking. But if I post it, you'll dismiss it, so I'll let you do your own research.) (My flagship university, without the equivalent of Carolina covenant, actually has a higher percentage of students receiving need-based aid than UNC-Chapel Hill.)</p>

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<p>Well, I don't like hijacking this thread, but for what it's worth:</p>

<p>UWashington is more expensive for its in-state residents than is UNC-CH. It is also larger in its undergraduate population. And while it appears (from UWashington's website) that they take as much as ~70% of their applicants, far less than this percentage actually matriculates there. That says to me that the school is used as a safety for many, and is not appealing to the many students of its own state. I would suggest that UWashington needs to work harder to try to keep its top instate students, instate. Notable also is that, despite your insistence that UWashington hands out generous need-based aid, only ~74% graduate in 6 years (compared to ~85% at UNC-CH). This suggests that while UWashington may be helping them financially, they are doing little else to see that these students graduate.</p>

<p>There is certainly a fine line that a public university must walk, especially the flagship university that wants to maintain a certain excellence. The more a university can offer its students, however-- the more appealing and, thus, more selective it becomes. In my opinion, this is a good thing. Public flagships, like UNC-CH, work hard to keep their top instate students in the state. That should be a goal (and it's ultimately a very worthwhile one) for any public flagship. It's worthwhile and valuable for the State; it's great for the faculty (and encourages top faculty to want to come and stay); and it's great for the students. </p>

<p>UNC-CH meets 100% of need-based aid (much of that in grants, not in loans or work-study). I have posted the diversity percentages in the past on other threads, so I won't bother to do that again here. (See tsdad's post #50 for more details.)</p>

<p>Once again, the UNC system (16 campuses total) and the State of NC does quite a lot for its residents.</p>

<p>Apologies to the OP for the digression.</p>

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<p>But back on track. This Duke grad <em>gasp</em> gives another vote for UNC, particularly as it is the cheaper alternative. Both UMo and UNC have outstanding J-Schools with a ton of alumni connections. My sister-in-law was Daily Tar Heel editor in chief, is a working journalist and man, can she write. Oddly, she was not a J-major -- it's possible to get heavily involved with student journalism at UNC without actually majoring in the field (and many working journalists suggest just that path -- major in a liberal arts/social sciences field but dive into the journalism activities)</p>

<p>In any event, you really, really can't go wrong with these two choices.</p>

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<p>*Hi Cheers - *</p>

<p>In reference to the side by side lists, we had already done that 2 weeks ago -way before I posted here. We did not go so far as to compare courses. Apparently, UNC's J school will be making some major changes, therefore things will be different my the time my daughter is a Junior.</p>

<p>*Jack - *</p>

<p>You are incorrect about the 18% - the stats I have are directly from the Assoc Director of Admission. He gave them to me when we visited UNC 2 weeks ago. He spoke extensively to the admitted students and parents invited to attend 2 days of special events. The stats you read about are old.</p>

<p>*Also you are hijacking this thread! *</p>

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<p>pairodocks---Altho the vote here seems to favor UNC by a healthy margin, it all comes down to where your D thinks she will fit in best. Both are good schools. We live in NC, and both H and I strongly pushed for UNC-CH, for all the reasons the posters above have stated. In the end, D strongly felt that UMD-College Park was the better fit for her, and that's where she will be headed in the fall. Good luck to you and your D. I would, however, echo the suggestion that your D look at coursework specifics....compare the course offerings, required courses, requirements for the major....all this info is online and may be another deciding factor. Once we got to that level of comparisons between schools, there were some pretty big differences.</p>

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<p>I want to second lderochi. If your daughter insists on majoring in journalism have her double major in a content subject like political science, history, or a science. Many journalists can write well, but they don't know anything.</p>

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<p>pairodocks: I have no idea how you are hearing information given to you, but you are clearly not really listening. I am not making up the 18% out of thin air. The out-of-state enrollment is determined by the Board of Governors and the Legislature; it has been at 18% for years, with in-state at 82%. Look it up. </p>

<p>To get back on track, it appears your daughter has received enough financial aid (in the form of grants(?), which is relevant to the "hijacked" posts, by the way) to attend UNC debt free. (Correct me if I'm wrong.) Despite the strength of UNC and its journalism school, both she and you still seem to be experiencing great angst in making this decision. I can only believe that's because, as you say, Mizzou is her "first choice." So--for what it's worth-- I think you should do all you can to ensure she can go there. Perhaps she can work in the summers to help pay for that. I do think she'd be happier there as it really is her first choice. I would really encourage her to go there, and you should do everything you can to make that happen!</p>

<p>Good luck.</p>

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<p>yeppers...jack's right. 18% oos is the law in the State of NC. Not sure what statistic the OP is referring too...perhaps some confusion there?</p>

<p>Thread evolution is natural and should not be confused with hijacking. (We don't own 'em, so there's no controlling 'em. ;) ) I'm not sure if anymore can actually be said on the original topic anyway. It sounds like a financial issue and that is not something that can be resolved here.</p>

<p>btw...that 'bolding' of the font is cute. How DO you do that?</p>

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<p>Pairodocks--</p>

<p>My opinion, having looked extensively at journalism programs lately, is that if Mizzou is her first choice, she should go there. UNC-CH is a terrific school, to be sure, but Mizzou is tops in broadcast journalism. And the fact that it is where <em>she</em> really wants to go shouldn't be overlooked. She can work in the summers or take out some loans to make it financially feasible.</p>

<p>I think it's quite impressive that she got accepted to UNC from OOS. I hope I can say the same thing for my S this time next year.</p>

<p>Let us know what she decides!</p>

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<p>15% may very well be the OOS admission rate--not the % enrolled from OOS. If they get 10,000 OOS apps and they admit 1500 and 720 enrolled out of 4,000 total freshmen you have your 15% and 18% numbers.</p>