<p>Curmudgeon, I think what you just said is VERY important for ALL junior parents to listen to. "I didn't make the decision. My daughter did." </p>
<p>As I said, as parents we can guide the boat, but ultimately we can't steer it. :)</p>
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<p>As much as we might like to. LOL.</p>
<p>The beauty with letting go on the parents part is that the students get the room they need to explore on their own terms without feeling guilt etc. I have got one now who is snooping around an internship that has nothing to do with any preconceived notions about why he was off to college two years ago. He just phoned me and gave me a heads up. It is so interesting to just be observing......:)</p>
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I don't know specifically about the OP but ...yes, I agree that "thinking" is common and I am guilty of some of it myself. We certainly were considering sale of unneeded body parts to afford Yale that we would not have considered for some of her other choices. But then again, I know that "name" meant more to me than her. What can I say? I'm guilty, too.</p>
<p>I mean our budget was $15-16K including loans and workstudy and here we were saying we'd find $25K for Yale. Somehow. Selling vehicles. Driving clunkers. Eschewing retirement contributions. Cashing in Life Insurance. Many others up to and including selling off assets like our home should it be necessary. Lots of very unwise things.</p>
<p>Sometimes the parent has to make the choice when it comes to finances and other family members and issues need to take precedence when it comes time to make that decision. </p>
<p>Also, I don't really mind the "we". I often use that when I am the "tag along " party doing little, even nothing in the situation. Sometimes, parents need to get the shell of the process started, guiding kids along and informing them of things that they may not discover themselves or at a price that no one wants to pay. I know I did all of my own college stuff, and made many mistakes that even a skim reading of CC would have addressed. I was really pretty up there in taking care of things like that, and would have so appreciated a knowledgeable parent to be a guide. Now though there are many more resources available, kids often can still make costly and foolish mistakes that are easily noticed by an aware adult, and I don't see any problem in the parent taking a role in the process. Especially if the kid is ambivalent and has no idea where and how to start. After all, the undergraduate education is considered the parents' responsibility and choice in this country, to the point where they are held responsible for the costs whether the kids want that situation or not.</p>
<p>As a parenting issue, I agree fully, that there is a letting go process that should be occurring at that point. Especially if the kid is going away to college. Not fair to plop him in a place hours away, when his life has been micromanaged up to this point. Not good parenting. But I personally have always looked at the college process as the separation milestone where it is pretty much the last time, I want to get involved in their lives to this extent. Hopefully by the end of the process, the kids have learned some skills of decision making and values and family finances. The next apps are going to be on them entirely with help only as requested. But right now my son is having trouble filling out his guidance counselors preliminary college questionairre, and if he answers them with his "dunnos" , I know full well he will get a short shrift from the GCs, as opposed to some well thought out answers many kids (yeah, I'm in College Central Country) will have. I will try to draw him out and make him think, and get something more about him. He will be dragged and pushed into the process, if he is like his brothers, but hopefully at the end of it, he will have learned enough to be able to do it himself, and he has put enough input that the choices will suit him. No way would I push him into a college he does not want, but some kids have no idea what they want, and need a lot of help in getting together suitable lists. And I have seen these kids graduate happily from their schools that their parents were heavily involved in choosing, and do well as mature adults thereafter, as a rule not exception. I don't mean kids hog tied and thrown into a school against their wills and interests, however, but kids who were just clueless, uninterested, and unskilled in the decision making processes.</p>
<p>Curmudg, most of us are. There are true values to schools that have a name and rep, is one reason though it is not always clear how much and if the cost and stress to other family members is worth it. Anyways, that is why those schools get such a high number of apps, the lion's share among those kids with a shot of getting in. Also, the mentality is often stronger with the first kid. After suffering the cost, and finding that even top school graduates can end up lying on the couch all day with a low paying job for a while--yeah, I see this with even ivy graduates here in this area, some parents start thinking differently. Especially as the parents get older, their income possibilities start shrinking and other family members present pressing needs.</p>
<p>Don't get me wrong cptn. I think the "we" is great until the decision time. Heck, "we" had a strategy. She selected from schools I found (and some that she found) that would meet her stated needs. "We" had schools we liked and didn't like. "We" planned our college trips. There was a symbiotic relationship that developed that was one of the high points (if not the high point) of my parenting career. Not to mention I had a blast.</p>
<p>The family has a role to play IMO, and every family gets to decide how to divide up the responsibilities. Until the end decision between (hopefully) reasonable choices. That has to be the kid's.</p>
<p>I also noticed the "we," and saw a tiny little red flag waving furiously on the screen, but I chose to ignore it. Especially because 1) the OP is new and hasn't learned yet that all of us parents on CC are simply here venting and having nothing at all to do with the college process otherwise ;) and 2) because the OP's D is just a junior. I believe with any of my kids, if it hadn't been a "we" process, it would not have been much of a process at all, at that stage. My D didn't have a clue about how to sign up for an SAT, for example. I don't think that many HS juniors are very aware of what goes into a college ap process, or even where to begin.</p>
<p>That said, I do agree with everyone who says it needs to be the kid's process as much as possible. I just think that sometimes the appetites need to be whetted a bit. That was certainly true in my D's place. And she still needs, and wants, guidance.</p>
<p>(Edit: Cur beat me to it.)</p>
<p>Doesn't have to be the kid's either. In my opinion, SHOULD be the kids, and that has been how we have done it. But sometimes the kids decision makes no sense; is unaffordable, or the parents just do not want to invest THEIR money it it. You are taking a risk when you do not let the kids make the decision, as that can be an important factor in things working out, and you will get the blame and that becomes a whipping boy if things go awry, but there are kids out there who have lived out their parents' choices just fine, and many who have bombed in their own choices.</p>
<p>I would suggest to the OP that the D make the college list (AND her senior year schedule, but I digress). If your D wants to apply to only MIT, Princeton and OSU, and you feel uncomfortable with that, tell her she needs to have X number of schools she will apply to. Specify she needs B number of reaches, C number of matches, and D number of safeties. Your D is obviously a smart girl - she can manage her college research just fine. Discuss with her when she wants to. When she's completed her list, go over it with her to make sure they are true matches and safeties (often a particular program or major within a college is more competitive than the rest, so be aware of that). Be sure she gets financial aid information (including need and merit based). Make sure there is at least one financial safety on the list.</p>
<p>This is not something you need to do for her. You do not need to tell her you think she should consider certain schools at this point, especially as it seems you have taken over the college search, the course planning, the major, etc... This is something she needs to do (mostly) herself. Be supportive but not overly involved. It sometimes takes heroic restraint (for all of us), but it's necessary to step out of the picture a bit.</p>
<p>We had a baby</p>
<p>My wife delivered our son.<br>
But it wouldn't have happened without me.
And I drove her to the hospital and her hand and gave her encouragement.
And it was our joy.
And I got to cut the cord.</p>
<p>That was a long time ago.</p>
<p>Now we are applying to college.</p>
<p>Our son will soon go off to school somewhere.
But it wouldn't have happened without his mother and me.
And we have nagged him and held his hand and given him encouragement.
And it will our joy.
And we are cutting the cord. Again.</p>
<p>Sorry for the maudlin tripe. I'm getting nostalgic and sentimental in my old age.</p>
<p>We </p>
<p>We had a baby</p>
<p>My wife delivered our son.
But it wouldn't have happened without me</p>
<p>LOL.
Because my D is sooo much more intelligent than I , I have always felt it best not to directly ask if this section of your post was true in "my" case.</p>
<p>I don't know. Does she look like the mailman?
:)</p>
<p>No.No mailman. But we had an itinerant basletball playing mathmetician as a yardboy back in the late 80's. Hmmmm.</p>
<p>LOL.<br>
The real question is, does she have a warped sense of humor? </p>
<p>Even that wouldn't establish paternity, though, as I suppose the yardboy could have had a dry wit.</p>
<p>Yeah, but did the yardboy raise goats?</p>
<p>Well of course parents should be involved -- that's exactly what "we" said. But "we" shouldn't be the ones steering the boat. "We" should be guiding, yes, because most kids do need help and advice, but "we" should not be grabbing the oars out of our kids hands and setting the course for them. Believe me, "we" know first hand just how hard that can be at times -- "we" have boxes of empty rolls of duct tape that "we" used to keep our mouths shut to prove it. Sometimes "we" may even have to live with the child choosing a different path than "we" would have hoped. After all, "we" aren't just seeking to get our kids into college, but to prepare them to be competent adults who can handle life without us. Or, perhaps "we" are wrong about that. Sorry if "we" offended anyone. "We" will shut up now. ;)</p>
<p>"We" are not amused. (credit to the Queen) :)</p>
<p>"We" take no offense, Carolyn! ;) In fact, we agree with you.</p>
<p>One of the biggest challenges of raising kids seems to be finding the balance between pushing/encouraging steering/guiding holding on/letting go.</p>
<p>The conversations that go on in your head are daunting: </p>
<p>"Do we nag him about his homework and push him to get straight A's? Maybe, but maybe we let him set his priorities (within reason) even if that means a few more B's than we would like."</p>
<p>"Do we let him miss an application deadline to teach him a lesson about planning ahead and responsibility? Maybe, but maybe that would cause him to miss out on a great opportunity that could change his life. " </p>
<p>"Maybe if he isn't responsible enough to research all of the colleges and make his own list, he isn't 'ready' for it. Let him go to the local CC for a couple of years or get a job! Yeah, we hear ya, but maybe going away to college is the perfect time for him to develop that responsibility and we know he thrives on academic challenges."</p>
<p>There is not a one-size-fits-all answer for all kids. I have a problem when some of the posters imply that if your kid isn't totally independent by the January 1 application deadline, either the kid isn't ready or you have failed as parents. Kids have different personalities and mature differently. </p>
<p>I think my S is ready to go away and have a wonderful college experience, but sometimes we just look at each other and shake our heads. We look back and think, "You know, he's got the smarts--maybe if we had pushed him a little more, he could get into MIT or something. Maybe if we had backed off a little more, he would have been the perfect self-motivated child with six patents and a dozen full-ride scholarships. Yeah, but, maybe we have actually managed to somehow push/encourage guide/steer somehow get him lined up facing into the wind at end of his own personal runway, engines reving, and ready to take off to some unknown destination."</p>
<p>When my D goes through this process in a few years, she will devour every college brochure that shows up in the mailbox. She'll have her teacher recommendations lined up by the end of junior year. She will probably have a perfect list of two safeties, three matches, and two-point-five reach schools that she has selected based on her personal spreadsheet of thirty-seven weighted criteria. She is organized. That's just her personality. At that point, though, there will be more daunting conversations going on in our heads. We'll be looking back and wondering, "You know, maybe if we had just done X differently,...."</p>
<p>Oh well, you do the best you can. You listen to those little voices in your head. You make one decision at a time. You try not to live vicariously through your children, but you try to encourage them to excel. You try to find that balance. You try to appreciate your wonderful kids and enjoy them every day.</p>
<p>No more maudlin tripe, I promise!</p>
<p>Dad'02, having had all of the same conversations in my own head about my daughter last year, "we" know where you're coming from. Somehow, it still all worked out, and she ended up just fine. :)</p>