<p>Had a long discussion with DD and DW yesterday and here are 7 schools we agreed to apply. Princeton, Harvard, MIT, UChicago, UWSTL, Case Western, and OSU. DD would like to major in bio science or medical research. She will not apply for any women only schools.</p>
<p>We know the first 4 are highly selectives. Do we need to pick a few more matches?</p>
<p>A word of advice: Your daughter is a junior. She does not need to finalize her list for another 7-8 months, even longer. She should have the space to change her mind -- kids change a lot at this age. She could have an experience this semester or this summer that changes her mind about what she wants to do.</p>
<p>If she is perfectly happy going to OSU or Case Western, then there is no need to have matches. But again, this is a decision she doesn't have to make for months.</p>
<p>I wouldn't think so. If she has stats for for the possibilities with the top schools, OSU would be a safety and Case nearly so. Am assuming that OSU is your state school and is a financial safety as well, or money is no obstacle Just an observation from the stats I have here; more kids from here with top stats were waitlisted or not accepted to UWSTL than UCh. It appears that interest may be a big issue with that school, as I can see that a number of kids were accepted to more selective school even as they did not get into UWSTL. Since we should have the geographics in our favor, or at least not running against us here in the Northeast, it is abit of a quirk.</p>
<p>Also Sly is absolutely right. Do give her the space and flexibility. Soem kids feel so locked in that they just "go with the program" when parents are pushing along oblivious that things have changed in the kids' minds. Also I would research the number of bio type majors that start out at MIT, UCH, CW vs the ones who make it med school. Don't bother checking the success rate of those who APPLY to med school and get in, because the way it works, is there is a selection process to even get to the apps stage. If a lot of kids are not getting the grades to have med school consideration after their sophomore year (O_CHEM is usually the spoiler), you may want to consider some schools that help, encourage and nurture premeds. It's a grade gauntlet at the 4 mentioned places which eliminates a lot of wanna be premeds.</p>
<p>Here is our schedule (me like to plan way ahead for everything):</p>
<p>March - SAT I,
May AP tests (4)
June SAT II (3 subjects) + ACT
June - July 15th getting application started
July 15 Spain for 4 weeks to perfect her Spainish</p>
<p>August - starting of senior year - at least 5 AP.
retake SAT I (if below 2300) or ACT (if below 34)
Oct SAT II (2 ~3 subjects)</p>
<p>Complete applications to OSU'c honor program and Case's PPSP program by Nov 2007 (they encourage early application).</p>
<p>Also consider Brown,Cornell, Tufts, Brandeis, --in order of selectivity.</p>
<p>O.K. If the first five are all reach and last two are safety. We don't have any match!!??</p>
<p>DD does not like Cornell nor Johns Hopkins, knows little about Brown, knows nothing about Tufts and Brandeis. At this time, she will not consider any west coast schools nor those in South. UPenn was one that she is considering. We also talked about UM at Ann arbor and Columbia but she is not positive. </p>
<p>BTW. we really don't want to aplly for more than 8 schools.</p>
<p>Also, which "tier" does OSU and Case belong to?</p>
<p>When you have kids that have high stats, the top schools are technically match schools for them, Laserbrother. Unfortunately, because so many of the kids who have those same high stats apply to the same few schools, you cannot treat them as matches because admissions is not likely even for kids way up there. They are reach schools for everyone. When you get to the next group of schools, they are really match/safety schools when the kid has high stats. But you still should have a true safety, because you just don't know what may happen in the next year. Mood disorders could occur (yes, the late teens and early 20's are the time), she could get mono, or any illness that could compromise school performance, a family crisis could occur--I can go on, and I personally know famiies and kids to whom these things have happened. So that safety is important, and it should be a financial safety as well. So in your DD's case, Wash U and Case are really matches, but given the quirky world of admissions, they can be safety/reaches in some lights. I think you are well covered, in any case. Just warning about not taking Wash U seriously despite the stats. </p>
<p>Also, you are leaving breathing room by not filling up the list. Maybe when you visit Boston, take a look at BU, Tufts, BC , Brandeis along with MIT and Harvard. Drop down to Providence, and check out Brown. I can tell you that the two latter MA schools could not care less if you visited them or not. Demonstrated interest not a factor on their check list. Let her find an 8th choice school and encourage swapping a school from the list for another as well as she develops more interest in the process. Don't let her feel like it's all a done deal already, but a dynamic process where she has input and choices. As kids start talking about schools, she may pick up on some places. Also her teachers and counselors may bring up schools that interest her.</p>
<p>Thanks cpt. So far this list has been complied by parents' suggestion. DD only wants to apply to MIT, Princeton and OSU (because her best friend applies there). </p>
<p>U right, this is just me planning. Anything could happen - both good and bad things.</p>
<p>I'm willing to bet mostly good things. It is a wonderful thing watching a child start becoming an adult, and tentatively making choices and decisions from information outiside of the family. She has a direction and guidelines, so she should be encouraged to add her input as well instead of having things squeezed in, especially since you do have the basics covered for her. That is such an important step in maturity too. I remember being shocked that some kids who finished college, had no idea how to apply for jobs, grad schools. Their parents had laid everything out for them from highschool, and they had never filled out much in the way of forms without micromanagement and direction.</p>
<p>From what I remember of your daughter's stats, you are way ahead of yourself. Of course, there's nothing wrong with thinking ahead, but (like others here) I'm going to recommend that she and you spend much more time investigating the vast spectrum of colleges in between the UChicago/WashU market tier and Case Western. If she continues to do well in school and gets the kind of SAT or ACT scores you hope she does, your initial list seems fine (provided she is happy with OSU or Case, which was not the case a few weeks ago as I remember things), but you may have learned about some other schools, too. If she falls a little short of those scores, you will be very happy to know more about your options (and Case may be more a match than a safety).</p>
<p>In addition to the many fine schools mentioned by others, you may want to look at NYU, Carnegie-Mellon, Vanderbilt, Michigan, Wisconsin, Rochester, Syracuse. Rice, Emory, Tulane, and the UC System and USC if she can relax her geographical restrictions. And, for heaven's sake, for a kid with science interests Hopkins and Cornell deserve more consideration than "she doesn't like them".</p>
<p>A few other observations: If you are looking for matches, Columbia and Penn are not significantly less selective than Princeton and Harvard. (Columbia was more selective than Princeton last year.) If she has good stats, Michigan and Wisconsin offer the advantage of being reasonably predictable and rolling-admissions schools, so that it's possible to hear from either long before other applications are due, and that can be nice (assuming that she likes either more than OSU, and that you are willing to pay for the difference).</p>
<p>Laser, no need to take more SAT 2's next year if she's already got three under her belt; and why both SAT and ACT?</p>
<p>I've already given you my list of schools on your merit aid thread) (RPI, Brandeis, etc.) Adding Penn to the current list gives you neither a financial safety nor another match school. </p>
<p>I think you need to figure out how important the money is going to be (I've gotten a mixed message from this thread and your previous ones.....) If you seriously can't swing tuition without substantial merit aid, right now, you've got her going to Case or OSU (which is great if she's interested in either school; not so great if not.) Nobody who goes to Emery considers Atlanta "the South"; Vanderbilt could be a fantastic match school, etc.</p>
<p>People here can be very helpful, but you might not have assimilated the message that your daughter will not get merit aid at Princeton at MIT even if she gets into both.</p>
<p>Other suggestions of possible match schools:
Northwestern
Carnegie Mellon
U of Rochester (might be a safety, not sure)</p>
<p>Be sure you consider the financial aspect when you make the list. At Princeton, MIT, etc. you are likely to end up paying sticker price. No harm in applying - just be sure your D does NOT apply anywhere ED unless you can pay sticker price for 4 years.</p>
<p>On another thread there is a list of schools still accepting applications this late in the year. On that list are many good ones. My D chose to use as her "safety" (really, more of a "fall-back") a couple schools she likes well enough that have rolling/later due dates, and apply there if and when she didn't get news she liked elsewhere. Her rationale was that she wanted to focus her energy and essay-writing efforts on schools that were most important to her.</p>
<p>As it turned out, a couple schools on her list offered EA. She has already been accepted at one, and will hear soon about two more. So she didn't need any safety after all. </p>
<p>I don't know if any of the schools on your list offer EA (early action) but if they do, you might be able to postpone lengthening your list.</p>
<p>IMO the cart has gotten way ahead of the horse. This is bassackwards. We don't have half the info we need to objectively look at chances (yes we have predictors but....) and there has been some concern about $. Take care of the $ side first. </p>
<p>OP, spend your time analyzing how much need aid at particular schools she is likely to get . Don't assume anything. Then look at alternative funding sources and scholarships (some schools have special loan programs for parents and students). </p>
<p>Then with that knowledge firmly in hand (and it will be ranges , not exact numbers) start building a list from the bottom up. She can go here if no help from the government or school. She can go here with anticipated government help. She can go here with anticipated government help and reasonably anticipated merit aid . As the numbers (rank, GPA, and scores) start to firm up , you constantly adjust your sights - upward or downward. </p>
<p>It does you zero good to concentrate of fine points of distinction between top 20 schools when you don't know that you can afford any of them or even if she is a reasonable candidate for admission. (Don't assume an over 1500 SAT or 34 ACT. That can be spirit killing. Boss, those are very rare scores. For anybody, no matter how smart. She MIGHT hit those, but like we've said before- don't add undo pressure.)</p>
<p>When finances are an issue it is absolutely imperative to build your list from the bottom up. (I think it is imperative anytime.) Find that school or two where she can be happy and you can write a check for the balance. </p>
<p>In our case , my D found an LAC with an automatic (at certain stats) scholarship that when added to her in-state auto-admit auto-scholarship safety gave her two schools that we knew, come hell or high water, she could attend and be (reasonably) happy. You can't believe how much weight that takes off your shoulders. Or how much stress that takes off the kid. Everything from there on in is gravy and for us at least the process became fun and exciting. </p>
<p>By the way. PPSP at Case is about as tough a program to get into as any in America. Case scholarships are very numbers driven and the numbers are spectacularly high. In addition to that, the numbers of Case's highest normally given scholarships (Trustee's) leave a substantial amount uncovered.</p>
<p>My guess is that the OP would be willing (and is able) to pay the big bucks for the big names, but reluctant to shell out the same for schools that are not as well known to him. That is usually the way it goes. </p>
<p>You are truly unusual, Curmudgeon, in finding a school that well fits your D's goals and then being able to let go of a far more prestigious option since it did not fit your family financial picture. Most of the time, unless it is truly not possible, parents take the hit, often even to the detriment of other children, family members and themselves (health,stress, pension issues) to get that Holy Grail of a top school admissions for a member of the family. Usually the financial reality check hits home when the kids wants to go to midrange PRivate U when simiilarly ranked Public U is less than a third of the cost, but when the gap in prestige is greater, all financial caution tends to get thrown to the winds. </p>
<p>When I entered this process many, many years ago, I did not know what I was doing. I was puzzled to be getting huge packages from some schools and a lot less from others. Now I know that the difference was pure financial aid vs merit money plus aid. The one ivy league school I had on my list gave need only money which made it the smallest aid package. Next came an out of state major state U that gave me very little as well. Where I raked it in were with the ones that had merit aid, if I got the larger prizes. Only took me 30 years to figure it out!</p>
<p>Laserbrother, I hope you will not be offended by what I am about to say, but but I get concerned when I hear parents using "we" when talking about college applications as in "We don't want to apply to more than 8 schools" "We have decided to apply to..." </p>
<p>This is your DAUGHTER's college application process. I agree totally with Curmudgeon - your role is to figure out the financial side of things, but it is your daughter's side to figure out her final list, figure out how she'll do her applications on time, and get them done. I think any parent who's been through this at least once will tell you that ultimately the more you push for structure and control in the process, the more likely it is that your child will (1) get stressed out and/or (2) dig his/her heels in and not conform to your master plan. </p>
<p>So, my advice would be to start putting things more in your daughter's hands. Sure, help her keep on track with testing, pay attention to the financial side of things and, once she's decided on a final list (which probably won't happen until Fall if she's like 99% of kids), make her a nice little list of deadlines, but don't insist that she have a final college list too early in the process, or start thinking that this is something YOU can control. College admissions is NOT something anyone control.</p>
<p>It is really going to be up to your daughter to make these decisions, to actually put the applications together, and to make the final choice. Parents can provide input and guidance, but we really can't steer the boat. You'll save yourself a lot of grief next fall if you realize now that even the best laid plans are likely to change as your daughter matures and thinks things through over the next year. :)</p>
<p>
Aaah. I see. But had you been following more closely or in real time you would have known that I didn't make the decision to "let go". My daughter did. My decision might very well have been different from hers. </p>
<p>I was one who had to be convinced she was doing the right thing. It took a while and some fancy arguing on her part. As I have posted before, if D was going to stop after UG or want a profession where a Yale UG degree unarguably opened more doors (Politics etc.), I would have been even harder to convince. ;)</p>
<p>Ultimately it has to be their choice for their reasons.</p>