<p>A woman I've known for over 20 years has a daughter who is a senior and currently applying to colleges. We are not super-close, but keep in contact every few months. My son is a college freshman, and friend and daughter have visited my son while they were narrowing college choices.
Today my friend called to give me an update and generally to ask what I thought. Up until now, I knew her daughter was looking at some high-powered schools, and I had spoken with my friend about finding good "matches" and academic/economic "safeties" as well as "dream" schools. Today, she let me know that her daughter had completed all her applications, and here was the list: Cornell, Stanford, Northwestern, U of Notre Dame, Princeton, U of Chicago, and Amherst. I, personally, wouldn't consider any of those schools "matches" or "safeties" for anyone! Then she told me her daughter's test scores (which I hadn't previously asked about.) Her daughter took the SAT twice - superscored it is CR 740, M 620, W 800. Her daughter goes to a regionally well regarded high school, and has taken AP classes in English, US Hist, Govt, and Stats. Her grades have been mostly A's mixed with some B's. She's been a single-sport Varsity athlete for 3 years.
Those are very good scores, and good grades, but I honestly didn't know what to say: I didn't want to sound discouraging or like I was putting down her daughter. This is a very lovely, bright young woman, and while she could possibly receive acceptances from all or some of those schools, it seems possible that she could also find herself rejected from all of them. Now that a few hours have gone by, I'm feeling bad because I'm wondering if I should encourage them to look one more time at some schools that her daughter could get in to for sure. There is still time since many schools give until Dec.31/Jan1 for applications.
Should I stick my nose in? If I call her back, what in the world do I say to get the conversation started. I realize I probably should have said more when she called - but I was in the car, distracted, and frankly just a little stunned. My husband says to just let it go - so now I'm looking for a "second opinion!"</p>
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<p>No. If it comes up again, tell her you have no special insights or expertise, and that your best advice is that they inform themselves and take full advantage of college counselors at their child’s school.</p>
<p>Why not suggest that she post her question here on CC? I had the opposite problem while helping a friend. She wasnt encouraging her D reach high enough. She was so afraid of failure. I told her to check out cc because I didn’t want to cause any friction between us.</p>
<p>When she asked you what you thought, what did you say?
I tend to agree with your husband unless you think you misled her to think that her daughter had covered all the bases.<br>
Frankly, I think your gut instinct was right on. If she really wanted your advice, why didn’t she ask before the apps were all in?</p>
<p>Yikes! My second opinion would be to give her a call or write an email saying that you have been mulling over the college list and based on your experience with your own child, none of those schools are safeties. For anyone. You might offer (if you know) schools of similar size and location that would be a match or safety. She may very likely end up with no acceptances in April and then what?</p>
<p>Are finances a concern? You could also mention looking for schools where her daughter’s stats would be in the top quartile to earn more merit money. </p>
<p>Finish up with what we all have learned: the true safety must be on everyone’s list and this girl doesn’t have any. Affordable, she WILL get in (based on grades and stats), and she would be happy to attend if it is her only choice.</p>
<p>True story: friend of a friend’s daughter(HS2012) applied to Northwestern and UMich only. Great stats, grades. Rejected from both. Scrambling in April because no back-up plan and secondary choices were already waitlisting kids and not accepting new applications. Friend called me for ideas since we had been going through process with my D2012. Luckily from CC, I knew D’s college choice had openings and suggested this girl apply there. Accepted and now a freshman, plus loving it there. </p>
<p>I would talk to the friend once more and then let it go.</p>
<p>When she first told me the schools and then asked what I thought, I said something along the lines of “Wow, those are really excellent schools that lots of students have at the top of their lists. I hear they get lots of applicants. Did your daughter take a look at any of their stats or speak with a GC at school?” She said her daughter had looked at all the school’s websites and that they had visited all but one. Also - daughter had been out sick for a while and missed appointment with GC, so just left paperwork in the office for GC to complete the recs.
As far as finances, just the H works and they have four other children, each about 2 years apart, so I would imagine financial aid would be a necessity.
Wishing the GC would have taken a more active role, but can imagine that he/she must have been swamped at this time of year.</p>
<p>Is there a chance that she also applied to a state school that was a safety and didn’t think to mention it? It seems strange after your initial conversations about matches and safeties that she didn’t include any on her list. The fact that they will need financial aid makes it even more mystifying.</p>
<p>Can you maybe call her back with a good safety match and say “hey has your D thought about xxx, I hear its a great school that she might like, maybe she should apply and take a visit to this spring…”</p>
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You could ask her to
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<p>I would explain that while her DD’s numbers are good, the acceptance rates at those schools are VERY low, single digit for most of them. Most people understand that schools are “selective” but don’t really know HOW selective they are. Maybe have her look on the College boards site to see the acceptance rates for those schools. Tell her that you had your son apply to those top schools but also to schools X, Y, Z just in case. </p>
<p>A friend of our’s DD is a college freshman. She applied to a similar list, but mostly just Ivy’s. She was rejected from ALL of those schools and got into one fairly selective school only (double legacy). She was #1 in her class, 2390 SAT, 35 ACT, 4.0 UW GPA, full IB diploma, blah, blah, blah.</p>
<p>Ecnourage her to put in an app at the state flagship. Many are rolling admission, so they could have one “in the bag” early.</p>
<p>Is there a little bit of “keeping up with the Joneses” going on here? You S was accepted at numerous high caliber schools. If you suggest that her D should look lower down the ladder what does that say? It’s just awkward. I wouldn’t go there if you value the friendship.</p>
<p>@sylvan-That’s what my husband was worried about-her D and our S have been friends since they were babies, but we’ve never lived in the same town, and they’ve taken very different academic paths and went to very different high schools. Also we did encourage our son to visit and apply to schools where he would be likely to be accepted with FA/MA.
I think some of it is just their unfamiliarity with the admissions process as it is now compared to when we applied to schools- they were “shocked” that our S didn’t get in at any Ivies (as were many others who did not seem to really understand that highly selective schools are crazy competitive and more like winning the lottery if you’re not a top student in the nation.)</p>
<p>You could tell her that although you hoped your son would get into the schools he did, you made sure he did have a back up plan by applying to school X in case all the school he applied to rejected him. Ask if her daughter has a back up school as well?</p>
<p>Hmm… where was that article we were kicking around out here a while ago that talked about the 700/700/700 number for top colleges? That math SAT seems like a pretty big weakness for those top schools. And it doesn’t sound like the GPA is totally top of the line. To be blunt, I bet that kid is not getting into ANY of those schools, as it also does not sound like she is hooked or has high stats. :(</p>
<p>Quite a few schools have app dates out further than Jan. 1 (eg, my D2 has four schools on her list that are January 15 dates. D1 had one that was 2/15). </p>
<p>I would call back and say that you have been thinking about it, and given the low admit rate and high stats for students getting into those schools, she really needs to consider adding a few “likely” schools as well. (that is what our GC calls them). One way for her to get a reality check might be to go to Parchme nt.com and put in her D’s stats; I don’t think it is THE most reliable source, but it would give her an idea that her D’s odds are probably about 10% at best at EVERY school on her list. Then suggest she come out here and try posting a query in the college search & selection forum to get suggestions for a few other schools.</p>
<p>that college list is terrible… everyone knows it, except apparently the people that it will impact most. Unfortunate.</p>
<p>I might consider shooting them an email, congratulating them on finishing all the apps and say how impressed you are with the list, blah blah blah. Then say something like “I’m sure you applied to a safety school like <em>safety school here</em> that you will be guaranteed to be accepted to, but I just wanted to make sure! Those top colleges are a crap shoot for anyone and I would be so disheartened if the worst case scenario happened and you didn’t get an acceptance and had to go to community college for a year. Congrats on finishing your applications!”</p>
<p>I would help her by saying something like - People “in the know” recommend that you apply to select schools (as she has), the state flagship, and 2 financial safety schools. Because when it comes down to reviewing the acceptances and FA offers you want to have all the options in front of you (and some schools may increase FA offers based on your need and what other schools have been willing to do). It gives her a reason to cover her bases, valuable advice, and potentially saves her D from a mess. </p>
<p>Then tell her you wish you were on the admissions committee because You love her Daughter… Then fade into the background and let her and her D decide what they want to do with the advice.</p>
<p>I would be careful about talking about “financial safeties”. If the parents think they have it covered financially, they will blow off the advice. What we are talking about are academic safeties (or at least some matches). I think the OP was ASKED for advice, and should give it, saying that the girl’s stats are a bit low for all the schools on her list. And suggesting methods to add at least a few match schools to the mix and a safety.</p>
<p>If the OP doesn’t… I bet we will see that mom out here in early April, dismayed that her kid has been rejected everywhere. 
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<p>I do agree that if the OP has an email address, an email might be a better choice than a phone call. Give some links to things like Parch ment, the CC place to post for college selection, and give them the Fiske book title with the suggestion to find a couple of schools where the D’s stats are in the top 50% (even the math). Mention a couple of schools to look into if the OP knows what the kid’s interests are and any constraints like location.</p>
<p>OP, don’t listen to your H. Friends don’t let friends make mistakes like this, especially when the friend asked for your advice.</p>
<p>I agree with those who think you should follow up with her. Look at it this way: you have important information that could affect her daughter that it appears she doesn’t have. If the tables were turned, wouldn’t you hope and expect that your friends would share such information with you? There are ways to communicate the information that would cause no offense: “Boy, in the last few days, I’ve been hearing some nightmare stories abt stellar kids rejected from some of the schools you mentioned. It reminded me of some very helpful advice we received when my son was applying and I thought I’d pass it along. Should always have one safety blah blah blah. For my son, that safety was XXX. I can tell you it made things a lot easier at our house when those Ivy League rejections started coming in. The whole thing’s so unpredictable that no one can count on anything any more. Anyway, you’ve probably already got this covered but I thought it was worth mentioning since it was advice we had really appreciated. I’d be happy to brainstorm with you or your daughter if you’d like. I was so happy to see you etc etc and I’m so proud of your daughter!!!”</p>
<p>I think this is going to bother you because you know too much about how the college game works and it is hard just to let it go. I would call her back and frame it as a matter of curiosity: did she or her D consider applying to a few state/safety schools? If she says no, and sounds a bit put off, you can let her know that it is something that is done in your neighborhood to cover all the bases. Keep it simple, keep it brief, wish them well, and be done.</p>