<p>When an intern finishes his or her work with a company and is offered a job after graduation, is it common to accept the offer as is, or should you try to negotiate salary? Or should you just be thankful you have an offer to work for a company you like ? I'm sorry if this is a stupid question. Little experience with this kind of thing, so I have no advice to give.</p>
<p>I’ve been told that you should only try to negotiate if you have other offers on the table (from other companies). Generally, most companies know what fair market value is of a specific entry level engineer, and will try to offer said engineer within +/-10%. When you have another offer on the table, you can always play the card of: “Well I’m being offered $X from Company Y, can you match?”.</p>
<p>In the current employment market (high unemployment), it is much more difficult to negotiate salaries, especially if you have limited work experience.</p>
<p>Just be knowledgeable about average pay for similar positions in your area (this can be easily researched using glassdoor.com, salary.com).</p>
<p>For S, several of the jobs he applied for & was offered were federal, so there were listed pay ranges for the positions. He did get the higher portion of the scale that he qualified for rather than the lower portion. Agree with the above two posters. S was basically happy to have solid job offers from places that he knew had the funds to pay him. </p>
<p>He did interview at one company that was frantically calling during his site visit to try to cobble together funding to make him an offer. He chose not to devote much energy to that firm.</p>
<p>For those of us still in school, could you shine some light on his GPA/major? Just curious, sounds like he’s got a bunch of offers.</p>
<p>Our friend’s S who is a chemE/finance double-major who is also getting a masters in finance has gotten many job offers. Don’t know what his GPA is but he’s taking 24 credits most terms–very intense young man (graduating this May 2012). He also got internships from his freshman year. He ran his own business in HS, which he started from scratch.</p>
<p>My S is an EE & hired in Feb 2010; his GPA was 3.5+ (graduated May 2010). He had internships soph & JR years as well as 2 years of working in research lab & several publications.</p>
<p>Negotiating isn’t as risky as I think most people fear. I don’t know of any recruiter who will pull an offer simply because you ask if they had negotiating room (as long as you’re not obnoxious about it). </p>
<p>However, you also have to consider that as a new graduate, you don’t have much leverage for negotiation. Negotiation really only works when there’s a chance that the company won’t find someone else like you or that it will cost them a bunch of money to keep looking. That happens all of the time when companies are looking for experienced hires with a certain background in a certain field, but for a new engineering graduate all they have to do is go back to your school. And if they’re hiring for 50 entry level position across their company, you have even less leverage. They probably made 75-100 offers for those 50 positions and whether or not you accept isn’t really a big deal.</p>
<p>As a new graduate, it’s usually more successful to negotiate non-salary considerations. For example, negotiating a better location if the company has multiple, negotiating a different position (let’s say R&D instead of manufacturing if you prefer R&D), negotiating to have them approve reimbursement for a part-time MS, negotiating for another week of vacation (though most companies have a policy for vacation that is often difficult to change), or negotiate for a higher moving allowance to basically increase your signing bonus.</p>
<p>S was able as a new grad to get to travel to cities he preferred (LA & Orlando) rather than other cities that needed to be visited that he had no interest in. That didn’t cost the employer anything but because he was their top recruit, they were willing to work with him. He was also given generous moving allowance and allowed his choice of start dates.</p>
<p>These latter points were reasons he was also attracted to his employer, even though it was not settled when he was hired:<br>
He was also able to get Thanksgiving and Christmas holidays to spend with family 2500 and 5000 miles away (after he started work). Employer’s website says they also can pay/subsidize graduate education, which he will inquire more about.</p>
<p>In general: you should always negotiate unless you really want the job.</p>
<p>If you have multiple offers, then you should definitely negotiate, and try to run up your salary until someone breaks.</p>
<p>If you only have one offer, then you should definitely still negotiate, you just have to approach it more carefully. </p>
<p>My approach for negotiating is to have a number in mind that is the minimum thresh hold (usually slightly above or under the average starting wage for your major) based on your skills, GPA and other desirable attributes. If you think you’re worth more, then ask for it, but you should have a pretty good idea of what is and/or is not reasonable. You only have power at the negotiating table if you are willing to walk away. Never negotiate unless you are serious about walking away! Also do not start negotiations unless you know what you want. If you want $10,000 more per year, or another week of vacation let them know. Don’t go back to the table and say: “well the offer is not good enough.” Use specific examples. Coming to the table with: “you offered $15,000 less than the average offer for my major at my school” is a much more compelling reason than, “I want more money.”</p>
<p>Of course there are other considerations, like geographic location, vacation, or benefits. For example: if you really want to work in Alaska, but there are only two companies then you should be prepared to accept any offer that’s made. </p>
<p>If a company makes you a really unreasonable offer (too low, bad location, etc) then you should tell them. Not only because they might not know any better, but because they might just be fishing to see if you know what you are worth. Even if you don’t accept their offer, they might find it useful to know what the going rate is for someone with your talents. As long as you are not a jerk about it, you can leave the situation in a positive light.</p>
<p>To give you an example: I was offered positions coming out of my Masters degree with compensation less than what I was offered coming out of my Bachelors program. After I made it clear that I did not go to school for two additional years to make less, they drastically raised the compensation package. Unfortunately for them, another company made a MUCH better offer. But no one at the company blamed me for turning them down once they found out, because their hands were tied by HR higher up the chain. They wished me well at my new position, but were understandably upset (mostly with their internal hiring policies) because they have not had success hiring from my program recently.</p>
<p>So pseudoghost, under your methodology if one has only a single offer, and he/she believes it is too low, they should be serious about walking away? </p>
<p>You have some serious fallacies in your methods that you yourself don’t seem to have tested.</p>
<p>The way to look at it is 1) if it is a good opportunity, 2) fair market offer. As someone who sits on the other side, if I made a decent offer, and the potential hire is asking for more, I would rather walk away from the deal. I would view that person to be a problem employee someday. On the other hand, if this person should ask me to help out with his move (because he lived far away) or assistance in finding an apartment, I would make sure appropriate assistance is given.</p>
<p>Firms which recruit large number of UG tend to offer the same package to everyone, there is not much to negotiate. Make sure your kid knows the market, or he could potentially lose his offer.</p>
<p>^ Agree with oldfort. My company uses a somewhat standard formula to come up with college hire offers (whether you interned here or not). Since we decided we wanted you, the offer made was usually as high as we wanted to go to encourage you to accept it. We also offered a good relocation package that is the same for everyone, so really no room to negotiate there. </p>
<p>People who tried to negotiate with me got the “take it or leave it” response from me with the hope that they would leave it as I now had them labeled as a potential problem employee.</p>
<p>What about applicants with more experience? Not to hijack the thread, but I have 8 years aviation experience with both electronics and jet engines. As a new graduate, would it be seen as “troublesome” if I asked for more than the standard offer? Or would my experience on my resume already be factored into the offering salary? </p>
<p>Thanx for the advice.</p>
<p>Lookin4ward - it depends what kind of job you are applying for. If it is an entry level position and there are multiple hires, then I would just take the standard offer as is. If your experience is relevant then you will be promoted and given more money sooner than other new hires. </p>
<p>As a hiring manager, I usually know when I have low balled someone. I normally wouldn’t like to do that because I want people to be “happy” with their offer, but it is not to say every manager feels the same. If for whatever reason I have low balled someone, and if that person should turn out to be a star, I would make sure he/she is brought up to the market as soon as possible because I wouldn’t want to lose a good employee. </p>
<p>If you have another offer, then be all means let your first choice know. On the other hand, if the difference in salary is very little, then I would advise to let it go.</p>
<p>Even mediocre firms can advertise a job these days for most disciplines of engineering and receive dozens, if not hundreds of resumes. Structured HR practices pretty much tie the hands of the personnel involved with the interview/hiring process. </p>
<p>In my own circumstance, as a 2002 graduate, I received a $60k/year offer, which, at the time was excellent. But as the noose tightened around the economy, the firm figured out that there were numerous classmates who were willing to work for literally half the money, and my high-end skillset wasn’t of particular immediate value. Guess what happened to me and a dozen of my new grad colleagues who took a similar offer? :(</p>
<p>were you fired mark? Or not given a “raise” for some time?</p>
<p>That is one of the pros & cons that have to be weighed by prospective employees. Our S really wanted to work for a private company when he got his EE in 2010 but ended up with 3 federal job offers. He took the one that he thought offered the most room for growth and excited him. So far, he has no regrets and is being paid a decent salary (though lower than many private companies–he & we like the relative stability).</p>
<p>When to negotiate is a tricky thing for an experienced person. Some companies may try to low ball you but most won’t. What you have to know is how much you are really worth? Be realistic, don’t assume you are the greatest thing since sliced bread when you’re not.</p>
<p>You have to also think about from the hiring manager’s point of view. He wants to get you into the company so there is not a lot of incentive to low ball your offer unless he has several available and qualified candidates. In that case, supply and demand takes over and maybe you really aren’t worth as much. The manager also doesn’t want to overpay you. People do compare salaries and why upset the current employees by bringing you in at a too large a salary. Also when it comes time for raises, if you got a too large an offer then you are overpaid for what you do and your raises would be small or non-existent. You’d then get upset and leave. The manager is right back to where he started (actually behind due to the training he probably had to put into you). </p>
<p>If you do want to negotiate, don’t just start of by asking for more money. Ask how the dollar value was derived? Do they have the correct number of years of experience? Correct education? What is the value of the rest of the package they are offering? What is the salary range for the job they are offering (they may not tell you this, but asking won’t hurt)? If they have some of the info wrong, you can correct it and maybe get them to up your offer. Once you have all the info, then you can decide if it is worth it to negotiate. </p>
<p>Sometimes (maybe not in this job market!!) you can get a better offer by just asking for more time to consider the offer (after you’ve asked all the questions). If they really do want you, the company may up the offer without you asking. They may ask you what it would take for you to accept. They are having a little panic about whether you’re going to accept or not. If they don’t offer more, then maybe they were not going to negotiate anyways.</p>
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<p>They made our lives miserable (various psychological intimidation tactics, late and missing pay, instructing the union workers to harass us, etc.), to the point where it was so depressing to continue with the company.</p>
<p>One guy actually sued the company and discovered documents in the legal process that stated that getting rid of the dozen of us was a concerted plan by management.</p>
<p>Yes, the company in question was so unethical that they couldn’t just sit us down and tell us, straight to our faces, that the market had changed.</p>
<p>Our ‘replacements’ were hired at $2300/month on temporary contracts. With EE degrees. As I later found out, one of them messed stuff up so badly a man was almost killed.</p>