<p>I'm trying to help one of my younger brothers find some schools. Annoyingly, he's showing very low interest in something that he's going to have to deal with for the next 4 years. So I'm trying to recommend some schools for him.</p>
<p>He's a big nerd but hates the sciences. Although he does want to explore Comp Sci at some point. All of the traditionally "nerdy" and "geeky" schools aren't really options for him.</p>
<p>He plays Dungeons and Dragons and reads comics all day. Additionally, he loves the game Minecraft and Indie game developing. Enjoys reading books and webcomics. He's definitely not the hipster type, despite what the affection for indie games might suggest, and I have a hard time believing he would thrive in an environment filled with hipsters. I mean, he wears the same jeans shoes and coat to school everyday and i think they're all from the Gap.</p>
<p>He likes writing and has written a few short stories for fun. He really likes English but is pretty sure he does not want to do English or for English's sake. He's expressed interest in Journalism, since it would a nice application of writing and reading but ultimately he's not sure. Because of this uncertainty I'm pushing him towards the LACs so he'll have a lot of good choices available to him if he changes his mind.</p>
<p>So far I have Haverford and Grinnell. Also Macalester but I'm not too sure about that.</p>
<p>His rough stats:</p>
<p>Reading - 790
Math - 650
Writing - 610</p>
<p>Rank - ~90/900ish???
GPA - 3.6, I don't know if this is unweighted or not.</p>
<p>I’m pleading with him to retake the SATs. He’s taken it twice, the first time he took it without a single hour of prep. He’s improved across the board with each sitting. The third time, I was home during the summer and I put him on a stricter study regimen. Although keep in mind that “stricter” means going from 30m a week to 1h a week…, for the 3 weeks that I was home.</p>
<p>As you might infer from the class size of our high school, we’re low income people, Vietnamese specifically. The school houses a student population of over 4000, to give you an idea of the size. So,</p>
<p>money actually is not something I want to see him constrained by. No matter what school he gets into, he’s going to be shouldering a buttload of debt and whatever fin aid the school can muster. We’re CA residents so we’re not too hopeful on the fin aid front.</p>
<p>My son sounds really similar to your younger brother. Schools that came to mind for me. Small LAC wise. Hmm Beloit, Knox, Kalamazoo, St Olaf, Denison, Reed. I actually bought used from amazon Colleges that Change Lives. It gave me perspective on the whole thing. If you get a chance its worth picking up or borrowing from your local library. All the copies at our local library seem to either be stolen or over 2 month overdue.</p>
<p>Since you’re in CA, is being close going to be an issue? You’re Asian like us. Family is an issue sometime. Do you think he’ll have seperation anxiety?</p>
<p>A “buttload of debt” is not a great idea for any student to graduate with, especially one who may go into some low paying field like journalism, where the pay level may not be enough to pay off the debt in a reasonable amount of time.</p>
<p>Given the undecidedness between widely varying subjects (CS, English, and journalism) and the financial constraints, would he consider community college an option? That may be a way to inexpensively get the freshman and sophomore courses done without a two year time limit on deciding and declaring a major (and any additional years in the “exploring” phase would be inexpensive community college years).</p>
<p>The main drawbacks would be that CS may be difficult to find all of the prerequisites for at community colleges (see [Welcome</a> to ASSIST](<a href=“http://www.assist.org%5DWelcome”>http://www.assist.org) ) and the California community colleges under budget pressure have been cutting back on course offerings so that many courses are full.</p>
<p>Another option is if you live near a UC within commuting distance that he can get into, that may be more affordable than you think, due to the [Blue</a> and Gold Opportunity Plan<a href=“tops%20up%20financial%20aid%20grants%20to%20the%20level%20of%20UC%20systemwide%20tuition%20for%20students%20from%20families%20with%20income%20below%20$80,000%20per%20year%20and%20needing%20financial%20aid”>/url</a>. A CSU within commuting distance may also be worth a look, as the tuition starts out relatively low, so the amount of financial aid needed is not as large.</p>
<p>LACs tend to be more limited in offerings of majors than big state universities (CS in particular is often limited at LACs), although big state universities (particularly CSUs) may be harder to change majors within.</p>
<p>I don’t think he’ll get separation anxiety. I honestly think being away would do him some good. I’ll have him look into those schools.</p>
<p>@ucbalumnus</p>
<p>Great detailed post. Thanks a bunch.</p>
<p>He might actually be open to going to a JC for 2 years. He is remarkably levelheaded for someone his age and might just see the clear advantages to it. I personally would rather him not go to a JC though. It has almost nothing to do with ‘prestige’. He’s just had to sacrifice and forego a fair amount of stuff being the youngest child in a low income household. So I don’t want to see him get shafted yet again. College is a great experience, and one which I’m enjoying immensely. I think 4 years will provide him a good opportunity to grow, not just emotionally or physically. He’s quite shy and I want to see him be a bit more happy-go-lucky.</p>
<p>I know the UCs are still options. They’re great options. I myself attend one right now. That said, I’m still carry a good amount of debt each year and it doesn’t ever seem to stop rising unfortunately. </p>
<p>For example, I borrow Cost of Living expenses in addition to tuition since I’m going to school in NorCal. I borrow ~12000 a year to just cover rent and other CoL stuff. This is to cover what my merit scholarships and Pell Grant doesn’t. My rationale is this: if he goes to well endowed school, maybe one where his numbers exceed their upper ends, he’ll get some money based on need and merit. UCs don’t quite have it in their budget to offer a whole lot of merit aid but a lot of the better LACs do.</p>
<p>And in fact, I feel I may not have adequately sold to you just how poor our family is. Single mother, working two jobs and about 60+ hours a week, while making use what whatever government welfare is available to her. The fact is, if we were a URM things might have been a lot easier for us at this stage of our lives.</p>
<p>But this leads me to another question:</p>
<p>Do schools make distinctions in what kind of Asian you are? I ask this because I’m pretty sure that the high school graduation rate for an Vietnamese or Filipino is as low or lower than Latinos or blacks as a whole.</p>
<p>Also, is Haverford and Grinnel out of reach for him?</p>
<p>Realistically, extremely good merit aid will be found at schools that are low safeties for the student’s stats (like Alabama and UAB). Extremely good need aid tends to be limited to only a few well endowed super-reach schools like Harvard, MIT, and Stanford (realistically, one needs a near-4.0 in the hardest honors / AP / IB courses available, and 700+ in every SAT section to have any chance at all at such schools, and even then they are still reaches, because they each get thousands of such applicants).</p>
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<p>One of the worst ways to get shafted is to graduate with six figure student loan debt and no job or only low paying job options that will not be able to pay off the debt in a reasonable amount of time.</p>
<p>Thank you for those calculators. I’ve played with some elsewhere but had not yet seen Grinnell’s.</p>
<p>Apparently Grinnell has done away with loan packages and is committed to offering only grants to their accepted students. According to that calculator, he expected contribution would be about $4000, 2500 of which he would earn through work study. The remaining I’m guessing we’d have to get outside of the school.</p>
<p>That’s really good actually. Although I supposed most schools won’t be so fortunate as to have Warren Buffett head the board of trustees.</p>
<p>I think he’s lucky to have a sibling like you, and that you should follow your aspirations for him. While taking on huge debt is a serious consideration, taking on debt for a school that has a significant “getting out” pay off – as in getting a great, world-view-expanding education around people who become a new community and network – is different from taking on debt for one that doesn’t. YOu are enjoying college, and understand its “worth” and want to share that. Good luck.</p>
<p>For any school under consideration, put “net price calculator” in the search box to get an estimate that can help indicate whether the school will be affordable.</p>
<p>Be sure that he has a safety that he will definitely get into, which is definitely affordable, and which he is definitely willing to attend (this can be community college if he is willing to do that; a local CSU or UC may qualify depending on net price and admissions selectivity). Note that many private LACs (including Grinnell) consider “level of interest” in admissions, meaning that they may reject high stats applicants who appear to be using them as safeties unless they somehow make an impression that the schools are their top choices (e.g. by visiting and other contact).</p>
<p>Thank you so much. Kind words are always welcome. I agree that loans to go to a public university is a little bit different than loans to go to a small LAC. I’m pretty happy at my ‘giant public’ but I don’t doubt that this same amount of debt that I’m incurring would buy more at a smaller school. Although those smaller schools tend to sport higher price tags so they probably even out at the end.</p>
<p>@ucbalumnus</p>
<p>I’m not sure why but it had not yet occurred to me that small schools like Grinnell would rather admit someone who earnestly wants to attend. I’ll have to find out where he really really wants to go and then direct him towards ‘showing interest’ at that school.</p>
<p>Many of the private schools care about “level of interest” because they want to keep their yield rates (percentage of admits who attend) high. So they may reject high stats applicants who appear to be using them as safeties because they assume that such students will not attend anyway. You can search for “common data set” in each school’s web site and look in the admission criteria section to see if “level of interest” is considered.</p>
<p>State universities including UCs and CSUs generally don’t care about such things.</p>
<p>Remember, application deadlines may be coming up.</p>
<p>It depends on the student’s needs – some students may find that a smaller school is too limiting in terms of choice of academic programs and courses. The smaller schools do tend to have more individual attention, particularly in freshman and sophomore courses (though this advantage is often seen in community colleges as well).</p>
<p>Additionally, “social fit” may be more important at a smaller school. A student who fits in well at a smaller school will likely love it there, but a student who does not fit in may find it to be miserable. At a big school, most students won’t fit in everywhere, but they are more likely to fit in somewhere.</p>
<p>I had a church friend graduate from Grinnell a couple years back. He’s working at Google now and making really good money. From what I remember he got to study in Grinnell’s London campus and a whole bunch of other stuff. He had an amazing time. Then again he was actually very solid resume wise. He volunteered tons at UCSF and was even on that local Bay Area show quiz kids hahaha.</p>
<p>Not small schools, but you may want to consider University of Virginia and University of North Carolina. Unlike most out of state public universities, they do give financial aid to out of state students. But check the net price calculator at each to see if the estimated financial aid makes them affordable for you.</p>