My son is having a hard time creating his college list. Right now he has a lot of reach schools, but he needs some match schools and safeties. He has high stats (35 ACT w/36 STEM, 4.0UW GPA w/most rigorous classes, 770/750 SAT2s), very strong ECs, awards, etc. He loves to learn about anything and everything, but he says he’s leaning towards Economics and Philosophy, Math, or Biology or Chemistry. (He’s NOT thinking pre-med or engineering).
He prefers a small to medium-sized undergrad population (roughly 3 to 6 or 7,000), and he doesn’t care whether it’s urban, suburban, or rural, or where it is geographically. Cost is a big factor - we need a “meets full demonstrated need” school (preferably without loans, since he hopes to go to grad school). He’d prefer strong academics, an intellectual vibe, research opportunities, and “street cred” (his words). He doesn’t want a high Greek/party scene, and he prefers a campus that is “not extremely activist, but not apathetic either, and generally is friendly to a diversity of viewpoints.” My guess is that he’d probably also like someplace where he could get involved in his sport (just for fun—I don’t think he wants a high commitment), music, community service, etc. without it needing to be a primary focus.
Right now his top schools are Harvard, Stanford, MIT, and I think maybe Princeton, and almost all the others he has on his radar are also either tip top or top LACs. Unfortunately, we’re not able to visit most schools, so he’s been picking them based on lists of top economics programs, good grad-school placement, etc. For a safety, he doesn’t want to apply to the state flagship (too big). We could really use some guidance on how to go about finding some schools that are not all high reaches. Thank you!
I think almost all the LACs he’s talked about are reaches, too: Williams (he really likes their emphasis on Socratic discussion), Claremont-McKenna, Davidson, maybe Haverford. I think he struck W&L and Colgate (too party-heavy, and too low on diversity). I may have talked him into adding Denison, since it gets a lot of love here on CC, and that one’s probably got the highest acceptance rate of schools he’s considered so far. His GC suggested Univ of Richmond and University of Rochester, but I think their acceptances are still pretty low and their aid might not be as great as we’d like, although I need to look into that more.
Davidson, Vassar, and Washington and Lee are on the list of schools that meet full need that might fit his criteria and would be a bit less competitive than the schools you mentioned.
Our experience was that lesser known, instate publics were willing to give good merit money to high stats students.
Also, does your state flagship have an honors college? Depending on the school, that can make a large school feel much, much smaller.
@momofsenior1 Thanks! Just looked up Vassar in the Fiske guide and that sounds like it could be a great option! Davidson is on his list but the acceptance rate is only 20%, so that still seems like a reach. W&L is highly Greek (80%!) and also seemed to have zero diversity when we visited a few years ago for our older son, so he has already nixed that one.
@thumper1 Our older son was accepted to Rhodes, but it turned out to be one of the most expensive options for him even after his merit aid, so unfortunately I don’t think they really meet demonstrated need. Also unfortunately, he is not a NMSF. He was one SI point below our state cutoff, which was one of the states that went up this year. (He was really disappointed about both the jump in the cutoff and about the fact that his girlfriend got NMSF with the very same composite PSAT. It was just that her reading/writing score was the higher number, while his math score was the higher one.)
What geographic area would you prefer? What is your state?
It is hard to find “meet full need” safeties. You might also want to consider either schools with a low cost of attendance to start (such as in-state publics) or that are likely to offer a merit based scholarship. However, whether this will work is going to depend upon what sort of price you can afford.
If your EFC is zero, then yes you pretty much need to look at the list of meet full need schools even if they are not need blind. Your son’s stats are great and might very well get him into schools even if they are not need blind.
Are you sure you will get enough from ‘meets needs’ schools? I thought Richmond met need, so if you are ruling that out, will you get enough money from the Ivies or Williams?
With respect to LACs and economics programs, those schools that place highly (up to the ~top 20) in this analysis would be worth further research: https://ideas.repec.org/top/top.uslacecon.html.
Based on indications from the original post, Hamilton, Bowdoin, Williams and Vassar might be a few schools to consider strongly. Denison could indeed serve as a good back-up for colleges of this type. Note that the acceptance rate for Vassar for male applicants was recently 35%. For this and other reasons, Vassar would seem to be a match, as might Hamilton.
Colgate would be excellent for economics, but perhaps is too Greek oriented; The Greek-heavy W&L would not seem to fit his preferences.
OP, your DS should add U of Chicago to his list. It recently recvd a very generous donation from an alumni, which allows it to now offer very generous FA to accepted UG students.
State of residency, and are your in-state public universities affordable?
How advanced will he be in math at high school graduation? If highly advanced (completion of college math courses beyond single variable calculus at high school graduation), he may want to check if math offerings at each school are sufficient for him.
Someone mentioned Claremont McKenna. He may want to compare economics offerings with that of Pomona, since Claremont McKenna appears to have a more pre-professional emphasis, while Pomona may be better suited to a pre-PhD student.
It may be hard to find safeties if he does not like your in-state public universities. Good FA colleges tend to be among the more competitive ones that are not safeties for anyone, while automatic full ride merit scholarships (the few, if any, that are left) tend to be at much less selective schools with a more pre-professional emphasis than he probably wants (given that his interests are all in liberal arts fields).
It’s still a reach (for everyone), but Notre Dame seems to tick a lot of the boxes. Great financial aid, no Greek scene, lots of intramural sports and an emphasis on service.
I’d consider adding University of South Carolina to the list. They have very good merit opportunities and a great honors program.
My opinion…Notre Dame is not a safety…and they also award precious little merit aid.
In terms of Rhodes…I wasn’t suggesting need based aid…but perhaps merit aid would be possible.
I think that’s what I would be looking for in your case…schools with merit aid for her stats. Not income dependent…and usually guaranteed if the student maintains a certain GPA.
Could you give us the geographic area you would like?
Davidson is not only full need but they also have a no student loan policy. It’s smaller than some of the others on his list – 2000 students – but otherwise when I read what he’s looking for it fits the bill very well. Yes, reach (Class of 22 was actually 18% acceptance) but with demonstrated interest I think he’s got good chance.
I think Hamilton, Vassar and Denison are all good suggestions as well.
The problem with high stat kids (he’s above 75% at every college) is it’s hard to find private safeties b/c sometimes they’ll get rejected or WL as part of yield protection. I think you should find a solid public with honors program – either in your state or one with auto accept and one private with close to 50% acceptance rate and count those as your safeties. Show interest with the latter – don’t just cold send an app.
Then, apply to 4 or 5 high match/reaches (acceptances in the 15 to 25% range) like Davidson, Hamilton, etc.) and 3 or 4 high reaches (anything less than 15%) like MIT, Pomona, Princeton, etc. Show interest to all the colleges that track that – esp. the LACs.
I think he’ll do well and have some great choices!
@BirdinthaHand the nice thing about Vassar, for your son, is that it’s much easier for boys to get into than girls. If you look at their common data set you’ll see about a 20% difference in selectivity. They stopped being coed in the 60s but they still carry the history of it. Possibly pushes it into low match/high safety territory for him, with the added bonus that it really does have world class teachers and programs.
Right, Notre Dame is not a safety - I noted that it’s a reach. But it does tick a lot of boxes, has great FA, and is not as reachy as H,S,P, MIT. Just throwing it out there.
Another vote for ND. They meet 100% of demonstrated need and, from what I have heard, their packages are very generous. Also, since all freshmen are enrolled in the First Year of Studies, there is ample opportunity to explore various paths before having to declare a major. The only caveat to this is if the student wants to A) enroll in the Mendoza School of Business which requires pre-approval for guaranteed admission and/or B) declare a finance major which I believe requires department approval. (I’m a bit fuzzy on that as both my kids were A&L.) Definitely not a safety, but as @suzy100 noted, not as reachy as some. Also, ND has nearly 40 club sports and numerous inter-hall teams, so unless he is involved in a really niche sport, he will most likely find it there.
It might be interesting to note that, if the percentage point differential is converted to a percentage, the acceptance rate for male applicants to Vassar recently has been about 84% greater than that for female applicants.
In addition to Chicago (which my son attended), I highly recommend Grinnell. I don’t have specifics on its finaid but it has money (strong endowment) and I know a few folks who attended and ended up in academic careers. It is a fine school. Another that has something of the same flavor (to me) is Beloit.