Nervous Jitters from CA mom

Note, however, that intended major does matter for UCB admissions. It is more likely for the situation in #159 to occur for students applying to the most competitive majors like EECS and engineering undeclared.

The entire California university system, both historically and presently, is structured around high school class rank. As originally conceived, the concept was that the top 10% of graduates would be eligible to attend UC’s, whereas those who weren’t at that level would attend CSUs or community colleges. There have been numerous tweaks over the years - now it has tightened to top 9% - but class rank remains a significant factor, both on a per-school basis (“local context”) and on the “statewide path.”. The ranking is determined by measuring GPA in only specific, UC-approved and required coursework. So the system is specifically designed around the idea that California high schools are direct feeders into the University system.

Of course out-of-state students and homeschoolers are admitted, but they are coming in via an alternate path with no guarantees. Homeschoolers can be eligible for the statewide path if the complete the requisite A-G coursework, but tha isn’t just a matter of attaching a title to a home-studied subject - because the coursework has to be approved, the homeschooled student would need to work through an approved on-line course provider or local charter in order to complete the coursework.

I think for many homeschoolers the better path would be California’s guaranteed transfer via the community colleges. The student who completes the requisite CC courses along with the required GPA can qualify for guaranteed admission to most (but not all) UC campuses. So that is the route that enables homeschoolers to essentially get on track for UC admissions.

I think realistically most homeschoolers with strong test scores will also be admitted as freshmen to the less popular campuses – UC Santa Cruz has close to a 60% acceptance rate overall, Riverside is 66%, Merced is almost 75% – and all of those campuses are going to be very happy to take in a student with scores like the OP’s son.

@calmom

I don’t necessarily disagree with you, because I don’t have data to back up my argument, but I think your view is too “pessimistic” for homeschoolers.

Who/what authority approves the course provider? Is there a list of approved providers somewhere?

This is true. But it is also true for applicants from “traditional” highschools, not just for homeschoolers.

I talked to several people at UCB, and I realized that applications from homeschoolers were evaluated differently. But I didn’t get the feeling that being homeschooled was a disadvantage. I also have a feeling that “guaranteed admission” is a thing in the past.

The courses are approved by UCOP (University of California, Office of the President). It’s not approval of the course provider; it is approval of the individual courses. themselves. A California high school, no matter how prestigious or well-respected, can’t simply add a new course to their roster and have it count – it has to go through the approval process to get it added to the approved list.

When students fill out an application online for the UC, they can select their high school and then fields for reporting coursework are automatically filled by the list of approved courses at their school.

Information here: http://www.ucop.edu/agguide/updating-your-course-list/

If the student has graduated from a California high school, they need to complete the A-G subject requirements to qualify for the preferred pathways for admission-- the ones that come with the guarantee. And that is the path that most high school students will follow, unless there is some reason they were unable to complete the requisite coursework.

Admission by test scores alone is a different, less-favored option. Yes, a high schooler short on the A-G requirements, but with a 2250 SAT probably would be on equal footing with a home schooler… but either way, those students are at the end of the line as compared to the students who have guaranteed admit status with the requisite coursework & GPA, even with significantly lower test scores.

About 15 years ago, before the opening of the Merced campus, there was a year when the campuses were full up, and the UC system could not honor its guarantee. Some students who should have been guaranteed admission were shifted to the community college path. The Merced campus was essentially created to meet the demands of the increasing UC population. It’s probably unlikely to happen again, but it still impacts chances of admission.

I wrote that it was a disadvantage in relation to predictablity.

I don’t rely on “feelngs”. I rely on published information on the UCOP web site:

http://admission.universityofcalifornia.edu/freshman/california-residents/index.html

That only applies to certain specified STEM schools and programs. For applicants to Letters & Science, the major is not considered. See http://admissions.berkeley.edu/selectsstudents

Historically, the policy goals of the UC and CSU systems were based on statewide rank (top 12.5% for UCs and top 33.3% for CSUs), but these were defined in terms of (recalculated) GPA and test scores. Even when UC policy goals began to include rank within high school (Eligibility in Local Context), eligibility for such was defined in terms of GPA compared to recent previous classes’ top 4% (initially) or 9% (currently) GPA thresholds, possibly to avoid the kind of cutthroat rank gaming that occurs in Texas. Class rank as defined by the high school is not used in UC and CSU admissions.

From personal experience, I can share that my middle son, who applied to three UC schools, was admitted to UCSD in the ICAM major, to UC Irvine in the computer game science major, and was waitlisted at UCLA for electrical engineering. He was an independently homeschooled student from California with a 2230 SAT, 730 Math II, 710 Lit, 610 Physics, no AP scores, 39.5 units of community college, and he did not meet the a through G requirements in geometry, social science, and fine arts.

He did not have straight A’s in his college classes, and in fact had three B’s. He was not a particularly academically strong student ( had math through calculus one in the spring of his senior year, and had only one semester of foreign language at the community college). We were very happy with his admissions results. I have no insight into how the UC schools evaluated him for admissions, but it’s clear that holistic admissions is playing a larger role in the UC system these days.

What do you think your homeschooled son’s results would have been if his SAT score had been 1970 instead of 2230?

OP’s son has a 2230 SAT, not a 1970. If we want to try to make an educated guess at what his results might be, wouldn’t it be better to compare his stats to the results of students with similar scores?

OP’s stats: 2230 SAT, 3.94 unweighted GPA…800 bio subject test, 760 Lit subject test

@CoramDeo7 : can you update us?
Most parents here are nervous for your son and of course would love to cheer if there are good news already. :slight_smile:

Here is my understanding: Me, you and mom are probably more nervous and upset than the young man. I think he does not really want to go to college and he will be fine working and learning on his own. Eventually he might change his mind but right now I think he does not want to for whatever reason. It looks to me that he would give a very top school a chance but that’s as far as he is willing to go. Besides we don’t even know that if he gets accepted and goes to the college of his choice he would like it and stay and graduate. Perhaps he finds the structure of college life and learning limiting or constricting. That’s probably why he does not mind to start with CC as that will give him the freedom to keep on with his personal academic interests.
The situation reminds me of the kid that built the nuclear reactor in his garage and did not get in to MIT, everybody assuming MIT was not that impressed. My interpretation is that MIT saw in his app that the kid did not really want to “do” college and I think they were right as that student never went to college and he is very successful on his own (ok assuming the kid is who everyone thinks he is)
Anyhow, I wish the young man best of luck!

I think the famous “nuclear reactor in the garage reject” was possibly Taylor Wilson, who was only 14 when he applied. That was probably why they rejected him.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taylor_Wilson

You can see Taylor interviewed on a recent episode of HBO’s Vice: http://cleantechnica.com/2016/04/20/hbos-vice-looks-energy-future/

@am9799 show me a super smart kid who feels like they don’t need the structure of college to learn and I will show you a scared kid

I disagree – I think he wants to go to college, but doesn’t have an adequate understanding of where his stats and background place him in the applicant pool. And no one helping him identify likely and safety schools where he could find many of the qualities he wants in a school. He may still get in someplace on his list. I have one kid who has consistently exceeded expectations in admissions (did in undergrad admissions, and doing it again in grad school admission results right now). The right blend of “interested and interesting” can overcome some application deficiencies sometimes. But you can’t count on it.

Agree with @intparent. In the case of my middle son (stats listed above), I knew he had a few overcoming stories and his cello performances to commend him, but I actually assumed he would not get into his reaches, so we were very, very surprised when he got into an Ivy as well as UCSD, Northeastern and U Rochester. But he was rejected by four top schools and waitlisted by three others. He had numerous safeties on his list.

Because I knew the scoop, we were well prepared, but in retrospect, there were still definite missteps. Because we are a high need family (he was a small Pell Grant recipient that year), finances were a big factor in applications. He cared little for where he went other than that it was affordable. Because of that, too many reach schools with good aid got on the list that he had no chance of getting into (Stanford, Vanderbilt and MIT, though admittedly, he never would have applied to MIT if his MIT-graduate brother had not “made” him apply). He applied to too many schools that I knew were likely unaffordable (out of the area Cal State schools and a few safety STEM schools).

He was looking for that one affordable school, and at the end of the app season, he had one extremely affordable school (Ivy) and seven marginally affordable schools (UCSD, UCI, Purdue, UAH, U Rochester, Northeastern, SDSU), which were only marginally affordable because of his outside $6000 a year National Merit Scholarship.Without it, most of the other schools would not have been affordable.

I can well see why low-income, high stats kids apply to top schools.

The OP did say this:

He doesn’t seem to care so strongly about the do or die for college that he is willing to put in too much more effort beyond the 9 applications he gave his best to,

and

Otherwise, he’d like to explore non college route options like certification in programming (one of his skills) and freelance work, something entrepreneurial. Who knows. I think if a person is motivated enough to learn and succeed there is more than one way of going about doing that. He has certainly surprised us to date with some of his successful ideas.

Did he get into UChicago?

^^^@Hizeus - it seems he did not

I just hope he got in somewhere

@CoramDeo7 Was hoping you’d update us