Yes I have to say I have been very impressed with the honesty and integrity of the huge amjority of coaches my family has come in contact with. Too bad a few less forthright coaches make us all nervous. I wish the NESCACs had a “likely letter”
Admissions pre-read came back positive! I was expecting as much, but good to hear. Now we have the long wait till November. S asked coach about history with pre-reads and support and was told that only one player did not get in. In that case the boy had really messed up his first semester (failing grades). I don’t have those worries. Once again, thanks to everyone for their insights - very helpful.
Thanks for everybody’s insight,we were certainly aware that her test scores were low but her transcript is strong 5ap classes after jr year 4 more senior yr 89 average in her ap’s we have been told that is a major consideration for schools and coaches in admission process.Yes we did ask those tough questions also to coaches about what exactly does strong support mean we were told you have to write horrible essay ,get a bad recommendation, fail a class first quarter, or get in trouble to completely spoil the support.
@Mick, the coach told us nearly the same thing. He also told us that he used one his “slots” on our son and that admissions feedback was excellent. I don’t really understand if needed to use one of his slots, but I’m glad he did. He spoke more about soccer and where he thought my S would contribute as a Freshman. Although, I won’t be completely fine until he has an admissions letter in his hand, I feel very good about what the coach told us and how it is worked so far. Best of luck to you, hopefully we’ll both have great holidays.
@OldbatesieDoc agree … NESCAC, as arguably the leading Division III athletic conference and certainly the closest thing in small college sports to the Ivy League, they should go further. Their agreements for recruiting standards, started originally as informal agreement amongst the Little 3, was the first such coordinated standard in DIII as far as I’m aware. Take the “A Band, B Band” crap and firm it up to a likely letter. After all, that’s pretty much what you get with a positive pre-read in NESCAC.
In our travels, and I’ve had a few, the NESCACs are the best w/ this. I’ve had mixed experiences with the Liberty League … mixed experiences with Vassar in particular. It’s a guessing game there amongst coaches and sports. Some sports overall, and some gender w/in a sport, seem to have more sway with admissions than others. Skidmore, on the other hand, has been great this go-round. I can only confirm that when it’s all wrapped up, if that’s where D chooses to wrap things up.
One of my partners has two kids who went through it at Vassar, a boy and a girl, both squash players, experienced vastly different results, and the kids weren’t that different. In fact, the one who didn’t make it in was a much more accomplished and nationally ranked player than the daughter. Partner firmly believes that the women’s squash coach has a better relationship with admissions than does the men’s coach and that factored in. Both believe that other sports in general have more pull than squash.
It’s hard to navigate this crap. I’ve even heard stories of likely letters failing to come through on occasion. Then again, I’ve heard that from an college counselor whom I would not recommend and who gave me some advice that I later found out to be incorrect.
@BeagleAG , my view is this: the key is, how much the school itself has decided as an institution it cares about sports. Williams cares a whole hell of a lot about sports. Amherst, less so in our experiences with coaches. One of the Amherst coaches actually told me that off the record. He said, “look, in the little 3, Wesleyan used to be the school who didn’t give a damn about league standing in sports … any sports. Now they care and are doing well because they’re recruiting more aggressively like Williams.” He also implied that Amherst, while still wanting to be competitive, is tougher for coaches than either Williams or Wesleyan. He also suggested Bowdoin was pushing sports success more than it had in the past.
Then again, everything these coaches say should be taken with a grain of salt … they are competitors at the end of the day and this is their livelihood.
But my impression is that the engine is well greased at Williams. If the coach wants your kid, and the coach has used a slot, that coach knows when to use the slot and your kid is as good as admitted if eh does. I’d be VERY surprised if it ended differently at Williams. If you were elsewhere, I’d share your cautious optimism, but Williams College knows what its doing when it comes to recruiting and keeping athletes, and a big part of that is knowing how to not waste their own time with recruits they can’t admit.
If they can admit your kid, and they want to, they will. It’s that simple there. JMO
@OldbatesieDoc , one more thing: your words are quite true. They all do indeed talk, and you never know who knows who.
D was at surfcup and two NESCAC coaches where there to watch her. Turns out, they’re old teammates from their college days.
We found this out when we were at one of the visits. She said she saw her old teammate and said, "hey, who are you here to see? The response was, “******, she’s there marking the UNC commit. Pretty good huh? Who are you here to see?” Of course, they had a good laugh when they triangulated on my kid.\
The moral of the story? Don’t tell people they’re your #1 if you don’t mean it. I don’t know how much further their conversation went on my kid, but fortunately my daughter is a person of few words and doesn’t tend toward hyperbole, and I know enough to not over-communicate with these folks.
To add to both OBD and Midd dad, once you have decided on your ED school, let the second choice coach know.
Inform them of how difficult decision was and ask that if things do not work out would it be ok if you reached out to them for ED2. Unfortunately, you never know. My son has had a few teammates over these last four years who were denied elswhere in NESCAC but applied ED2 and now attend a different NESCAC school.
Never close a door as you just do not know
@fleishmo6 Regarding the kids who were rejected ED, did they have positive pre-reads and ask all of the questions those on this forum suggest that a recruit ask before pulling the ED trigger?
@fleishmo6 , could not agree more. never smart to burn bridges. sometimes they burn despite your best efforts. that’s just life. but when you can control or mitigate, you should.
I do not know what questions were asked but when I started my kids journey the impression that I received about the preread was not that it was a slam dunk for that student to get admitted. It was an ok for that student to be allowed on campus for OV and no immediate red flags were found at time of submission to negate admittance.Did not mean guarantee of acceptance. Other things come into play at time of ED, coach support,how many others are applying Ed etc There are a few stories on here of a NESCAC school for soccer that a few kids last year did not get in after all positives. The coach support is key along with the kids rank in the bands by the adcoms.
After all is said and done you just have to cross your fingers, and rely that the coach was very truthful in their ability to get kids in based on past recruits
@fleishmo6 , agree, but the key variable you mention is the coach’s list. With that, which implies a clean pre-read, it’s very unlikely a kid won’t be admitted unless something came up afterward that was material enough to change things.
Of course, all coaches say “I can’t guarantee”, but having spoken to each NESCAC school at one time or another for one my kids, it is very rare once you get to the list that you don’t get in.
I think the order is:
Coach likes kid.
Coach talks to kid and asks for transcript and scores.
Pre-read happens.
Good news on pre-read.
Coach says good news, you’re on the list if you apply ED.
If all that happens, and the kid applies ED as agreed, I think the incidence of denials is very, very small. Just my $0.02.
I agree, I too believe it is small but it does happen
My point being, it is not a likely letter and it’s always good to have a plan B and keep those doors open in case they are needed
I’m having S fill out the application now. 30 years ago, I was a recruited DIII athlete and applied ED in September/October. Although the process was different, I knew I was on the coaches “list” and well within the norms for my school. I had my acceptance letter by Thanksgiving. Will the NESCAC schools give “rolling” acceptances?
Beagle,
Your son may thank you for pushing him to get the application out of the way so he can focus on high school, but none of the NESCAC schools (or D3 schools for that matter) with which I am acquainted have rolling admissions. In fact NESCAC website provides the following with respect to admissions: “All NESCAC institutions have an Early Decision Round One option with a mid-December notification date.”
With respect to the jitters, fingers crossed they will be over by mid-December. In my experience, it was better to keep the worries to myself. Kids have enough stress nowadays and may have their own set of jitters about admission.
Just review Haverford and positive prereads for Lax if you want to have kittens. Not a NESCAC of course.
We found coaches at most schools, particularly Amherst-who told my son he wouldn’t give him one of his 4 “support” spots and recommended he retake the ACT, because with a 32, he wouldn’t need any coach support(which is what I call a “tip”, but I don’t want to start THAT debate), and Midd, whose coach is now at Wesleyan, totally straightforward. Sport was Swimming, years ago by now.
His second choice was Carleton, and he was honest with that coach, and e-mailed and thanked her after he got his ED1 from Midd so she could support someone else.
I think that’s how everyone should proceed-trust and follow your instinct if the answers seem to make sense, be specific, don’t let your 17 year old make ALL the decisions(but don’t hover), do a little google search/CC search, and keep your other options open, but with some candor.
I always hope it works out for everyone, but just “be careful out there”.
Stat(can’t remember the source , sorry) is that 80% of recruited athletes at NESCAC schools who apply ED are accepted…Wiggle room with that is that “Recruited Athlete” may be self-reported.
Another important thing to impress upon DD or DS is to keep the grades up and stay out of trouble. ED acceptances can be rescinded for poor grades, brushes with the law etc. I suspect athletes are under greater scrutiny because of a prejudice, justified or not, that they are getting a “break” from admissions. Poor grades can be a C on an AP class., even Calc BC, after a first quarter B. Truth. Other examples include underage drinking citations.
what @OldbatesieDoc said. I don’t want to re-open that can of worms here, because there are staunch, and I mean STAUNCH, Haverford and anti-Haverford people.
I have no axe to grind and think it’s a lovely school, though I do tire of their mantra about their honor code and their sense that it makes them special or that they invented it or something.
But I do believe there is something going on at Haverford that warrants keeping a close watch on things and also warrants hedging one’s bet. Unless that is THE school that your kid has always dreamed of, I’d go with someone else if they were roughly equal. I’ve just heard far too many stories, and had a little weirdness with my experience there two kids ago. Something doesn’t add … and I do subscribe to the smoke and fire line of thinking when you have imperfect and limited access to information.
I’m late to the party here.
There have been a lot of excellent and informative posts on this thread. I don’t have a lot to add, other than to repeat the recommendation that the communication with the coach needs to be explicit and crystalline clear (again, as in “Have you ever had a kid with this level of coach support and academics NOT be admitted?”), and that the vast majority of the coaches are honest and straightforward.
Finally, despite a note or two above regarding Amherst not supporting athletics as much as the other schools, my son’s trip through this whole process with his sport’s Amherst coach could not have been more clear and transparent. There are always jitters until that ED acceptance is in hand, but the coach’s explicit reassurances turned out to be well-founded.
@AsleepAtTheWheel I didn’t mean to imply that Amherst coaches are shady or less than forthright … that’s the Haverford side of my comments. My comments about Amherst are more along the lines that athletic support there tends to have less juice with admissions, and that Amherst doesn’t recruit as agressive as Williams. I would say the same is true of Vassar. At both of those schools the degree of coaching influence really depends on the sport.
Just adding the obvious statement that admissions support, and requirements for recruits, can vary by sport and school. For instance, my kid was told ACT score needed as a recruit at Vassar was 3 points lower than score at needed at Grinnell. Our interpretation – perhaps off the mark – was that Vassar coach had institutional support to improve competitiveness of the (male) team. Grinnell coach didn’t seem to have much latitude at all.