@gointhruaphase Considering the institution? What do you mean by that?
A student athlete gets one shot to cash in on their “hook.” If the student “commits” to a NESCAC after a positive pre-read, and applies ED1 with the coach’s support, it should be reasonable to assume they would be accepted, barring malfeasance on the recruit’s part after the fact.
In reality, that isn’t always the case in the NESCAC. But, if Wesleyan admissions ends up being even less accommodating than other NESCACs in regards to coaching influence, THAT needs to become a major consideration for student athletes.
Right now it’s a case of “where there’s smoke, there’s fire.” A recruit needs to weigh whether rolling the dice at Wesleyan is worth potentially losing their hook, at least until there’s news to contradict the current information shared.
As for asking the coach, do you really believe any coach, in any division, is going to be truly transparent about how the sausage is actually made? I’ve never been comfortable with the wink, wink, nod, nod, say no more commitment process with the NESCAC schools. YMMV.
@GKUnion, a minor disagreement. Actually, recruits get two shots (ED1 and ED2), but I do agree that something must have gone wrong to be deferred with a positive pre-read and full coach support. What we don’t know is whether 25 athletes who were actively recruited, had positive pre-reads, had OVs were either rejected or deferred. That is the suggestion from the post, but we don’t know that for an absolute fact. FWIW, if this was reported at Chicago or MIT, we’d just shrug it off - that’s the name of the game. From the NESCAC, we expect more certainty, but we don’t know exactly what happened in this instance.
My point simply is this: There are lots of recruits who have received terrific educations and have had great athletic careers at Wesleyan. I always worry about dissuading anyone from applying to any given school because of what we read on a public post. But, having this issue raised, if I was being recruited by Wesleyan, I certainly would want to find out exactly what happened and how it could be prevented in my case.
Questions can be posed to avoid evasion. 1. Were all recruits admitted who received positive pre-reads last year for your team. 2. How many were admitted. 3. How many were deferred? 4. Why were they deferred? 5. How many were rejected? 6. Why? 7. Were any other recruits for other teams with positive pre-reads either deferred or rejected? An answer of “I don’t know” or “I’m not sure” can be followed up by the request “Could you find out for us?”
@gointhruaphase I agree with the fact that no one knows the real story right now. The issue is that Wesleyan is unlikely to volunteer the actual information. Student athletes at the front end of the shool targeting process will probably never know what happened this year.
I also completely agree with your final paragraph. Recruits, and/or their parents, need to be very specific about their questions and terminology.
I also don’t disagree that recruits have received great educations, and thoroughly enjoyed their time competing at Wesleyan, but this is about recruits on the outside, looking in.
“Even if you have great DNA, it’s going to be really hard to catch those kids in that sport if you figure it out at age 13, 14 or 15.”
As the parent of a tennis kid, I second this. Our S25 didn’t really get serious about tennis to the exclusion of baseball until he was close to 13 and COVID was a few months in the future. He’s now 15, has made massive strides and is catching kids by surprise, but he came out of lockdowns on tournament play in February of '21 with about 10% of the competitive experience of the kids who were starting in USTA draws at age 9. It’s unlikely he ever catches up with that elite group who will be the mid-high level D1 recruits, despite having already matured physically to a degree that I can’t quite fathom, as someone who was shorter and lighter than he is now when I graduated from high school. And while he’s flying upwards in terms of points and rankings and the other numbers that matter in tennis recruiting, he’s already through a year of high school at this point and one can already envision that his pitch to college coaches is going to have to be “I’m something of a late bloomer” despite the fact that he’s been playing 4/5 days a week since he was 12.
I also echo your point about other communities/demographics. While overall the sport is amazingly diverse (at least where we live - there are country club white kids, more recent to the U.S. European descent white kids, African-American kids, and kids with lineages from all over Asia), economic diversity in the sport is scarce, at best. The kids whose parents continue to train them after everyone else has reluctantly started plunking down for private coaches 1-2x/week tend to start plateauing and getting passed by the professionally coached kids as soon as their refined skill level allows them to negate athletic advantage or grit or craftiness out of the self-taught.
That’s why tennis and golf at places like the NESCAC schools and other high-academic reputation D-III’s tends to outrecruit everyone below mid-major D-1 level.
“NESCACs are definitely taking athletes with a 3.7 over other students with a 3.9.”
For confirmation, one needs only to visit their kids’ high school’s Naviance page. I can spot the Harvard football players and Stanford crew team members, as well as the golfers at Amherst, pretty easily. It’s just pretty unlikely the essays or other non-athletic extra-curriculars or other factors are enough to get 40th-60th percentile kid with a 29 ACT into those sorts of schools unless they’re bringing something to an athletic roster.
One NESCAC school that really wanted my S26 swimmer said if his ACT score stayed at a 32 then he may need to go test optional (w his 4.2 GPA that included APs & honors from a very well-regarded public school).
TO brings in more complication. It’s possible your son can get in TO on a tip, but with the 32 would burn a slot.
The coaches are always trying to get the best players possible, both for their #1 pick but also with the rest of the roster. So if they can save a slot for a lower ranked but still desired swimmer they probably will.
Different but similar issue, S was told his ACT was fine (way back in 2019 when TO wasn’t a thing most places). But the coach still wanted him to take it to try to improve. The coach had an AI average he had to hit, so if S improved, he could essentially recruit a better (but dumber) teammate for him.
Lots of sausage making going on when they put together a team.
This is more of a NESCAC thread, but also relates to all highly selective school recruiting/admissions. Two separate questions:
1-My D is committed to a NESCAC. She is messaging the coach today to ask a few questions but thought I thought I’d ask here as well. Common App opens today; what are folks’ experiences regarding when their child (as a committed/recruited athlete applying ED) submitted their ED application? Seems some schools/coaches require them to be submitted pretty early, seem some just want them submitted by the deadline in Nov. At this point, other than being told to apply ED and maintain good grades, D has no real guidance. I’m assuming she should ask the coach this? I’m wondering if there is an admissions counselor for athletes/recruits? How have folks’ kids navigated this?
2-Completely unrelated, but asking out of curiosity. D’s close friend is committed to Johns Hopkins for the same sport. She has to have a background check completed. Is this common? What would be the purpose of that?
Thanks!
If your D is already “committed”, IMO, it’s in her interest to apply as soon as her app is in decent shape. She might get some brownie points with the coach as the coach solidifies his/her recruiting class. Also if some issue pops up with the AO, better to know sooner rather than later, assuming the AO is in communication with the coach. Don’t see a downside in getting the app in early unless it is rushed and not really in good shape.
Appreciate your response! Do students typically need to add things after app is submitted, such as letters of rec, etc. Two of her teachers have indicated they will not complete the letters until some time in September. Also, how does it work with their fall grades? Obviously, she’ll keep coach updated how she’s doing, but there seems to be no way to formally submit any fall grades before the ED deadline, especially since D’s school won’t even finish the 1st quarter until end of Nov. Just wondering how this whole process rolls out…
I agree with this advice, and just wanted to add to do a good job on the essay(s). Perhaps not as critical as for a non-recruit, but it’s important to show care and effort went into the app.
This is the normal guidance…keep grades up, don’t get in trouble, get your ED app in. Nothing else to do because that’s enough. Some schools do have an athletic department rep that is the middle person between the coaching staff and admissions helping the recruit get their app in, etc…I’m not sure any NESCAC has that setup though.
Some schools do background checks of recruits, I don’t think it’s most, but I do think the practice is growing (no data that I know of). Colleges want to make sure they are getting students of high character, so are looking for arrests/other violations that might show a problem. Of course, juvenile records are sealed in some states, so they can’t always see relevant info.
I can understand why the coach wants to make sure the applicant will pass all requirements for admission. If it is a requirement of the school, the coach just wants the paperwork in order before the applications. Is it just a form to fill out or actual police clearance?
You can submit the Common App before the deadline with other items like LoR’s pending. Each school will have an ED deadline schedule for each component that you can check on their ED page. September LoR’s are actually pretty early. The policy on midterm grades will be as per the school’s ED policy. If the ED decision date is prior to the end of the first semester, the grades would only be considered if they fell off so much to merit rescission or if the applicant is deferred to RD. Note schools will require all senior year grades prior to matriculation.
I don’t recall the specific date/deadline details, but I do recall that the entire process is designed to work. That is, the admissions process is set up to deal with a variety of secondary schools and their respective academic calendars. There is a deadline by which LOR need to be submitted, but that’s for everybody in each application pool (RD, ED, EDII). Just need to find out what it is at her school. Re timing of LOR, we always told teachers the date by which they were needed, and they all seemed to understand the urgency. It’s not their timeline - it’s the school’s and they need to understand that. Athletic slots/tips don’t come with a pass for a complete app.
Re grades. [Sigh]. I went through this with one of mine, so indulge me this tale of caution. As I’ve mentioned in other contexts, the most highly recruited of my kiddos had a bumpy college athletic experience pretty much all around (but thankfully loved her college). Some of it was her own doing and some was part of the roll of the dice involved in sports. Anyway, she had a let-down in grades spring semester of her senior year, and the admissions department wrote her a “letter of concern”. Once admitted, my sense is that it’s a pretty high hurdle to clear to lose your spot. And she had a high test score and a compelling senior year athletically, so those things help I guess. But they did send the letter, which asked for a statement in reply to the effect of “I made a mistake, I’m good, I’ll work hard, yada yada yada.” She sent it and we never heard about it again. By that time, I had burned so much frustration fuel with this kid … the one for whom pretty much everything a person would want in life always falls right in her lap … that I was like, “See? Now the chips will fall where they will. Don’t look at me.”
Anyway, I could write a book about my adventures with that one. The point is, grades continue to matter, as you no doubt know, and they’ll get them all eventually. If they’re in the zip code of reasonable, then all will be well after admission. But I would nail down precisely that timing of fall grades … if it is at all possible logistically that the school will have them before formal acceptance, then I don’t need to tell you that anything can happen. Just read all of the dramatic post traffic on this forum about kids being kicked to ED II and RD to not getting in at all after thinking it was all but done.
Bottom line is that she should proceed as intensely as she has heretofore until that admission letter/e-mail arrives and the deposit has been paid. Until that time comes, everything counts.
Gotcha. Yes, her 1st semester doesn’t end until January, ED app date is 11/15, I believe. So I’m assuming it will just be informal sharing of grades with coach? This is on her list of questions as well.
Some college AOs will contact the HS GC for midterm grades for all ED applicants. Your HS GC should know if your D’s school does this, your D can also ask the coach.
The coach basically said that we have to dance to the tune of the AO’s office. Her coach said to keep grades up and keep on doing what the AO office says they liked after the pre-read: community service, ECs, etc. Also, remember some coaches are still trying to finish up the '23 class, looking at the '24 class, and getting ready for pre-season.
Some schools will ask for a mid-year report from the the HS GC, so no senioritis allowed.
Fortunately, my D’s school has a GC recruitment specialist and the GC will guide the way. Recruited athletes are high priority b/c they are a special case. Reach out to your GC if you haven’t already.
It is not informal and once the application goes in, you deal more with the admissions office than coach, at least in terms of required documents and academic question follow ups.
If the school requests grades from the first marking period, midterm and final, the guidance counselor from high school will need to submit a transcript. In our district, that was all done through Scoir (similar to Naviance). Check on the Admissions tab of the school to see their exact requirements.
And while he’s flying upwards in terms of points and rankings and the other numbers that matter in tennis recruiting, he’s already through a year of high school at this point and one can already envision that his pitch to college coaches is going to have to be “I’m something of a late bloomer” despite the fact that he’s been playing 4/5 days a week since he was 12.