I get it but if He is a C Band given the rigors of his academic rigors in school made evident in his transcript. The Coach should have a stronger indication of which way the Pre read would go given his experience. I guess the major question why waste Coaches time , virtual Junior day , admissions and ours having several Coaches make calls and continue this process. In addition as you said they recruit a great deal of players seems like a waste to bring to Admissions if he was less than 50 % sure would be accepted. I would think they would bring to admissions 90 % chances of aceeptance having read many transcripts and then weed out from there the real desirable candidates.
You are absolutely correct. Experienced NESCAC coaches do know how to read a transcript and they will not waste their time by pursuing athletes that canāt get into the school. The fact that they are continuing communications suggests that they believe that you son may be admissible with a C Band Slot.
Admission pre-reads, however, are critical because while a coach may think a recruit is admissible, it is not the coachās call. Moreover, there is much more that goes into the admissions equation than just reading a transcript. For example, many admissions offices recalculate GPAs based on what they know about grading for a specific high school. As a consequence, most recruits want the certainty that comes with a pre-read from admissions over just the coach saying, āI think you are going to get in.ā
And remember, not every recruit is a slam dunk āyesā or a no-way ānoā on admissibility. In fact, NESCAC coaches often explain the results of an admissions pre-read using the traffic light analogy: green Light (admitted), yellow light (we need to see more - maybe better test scores), and red light (rejected). It should be underscored for emphasis that there have been many instances where a NESCAC coach submits a recruitās transcript and board scores to admissions for a pre-read only for admissions to give a red light. So, while a seasoned coach has a pretty good idea of what admissions will do, they are by no means always right.
1 Like
I am guessing the coach has a very good idea of how the pre-read will go. And if he expected it to be negative, he would not waste your or his time.
But he doesnāt have the final call. So he has to get it signed off on. And there is going to be a date he can submit your son for a pre-read, IIRC it was June 1 for Ivies, but that was a few years ago and I could be wrong about exact date.
I reiterate what I said before. ALWAYS be talking to a few coaches, because you never know what will happen. But more than likely if you have several NESCAC coaches talking to your son, and they have seen his transcipts, he will be fine.
The lack of APs and the SAT scores will lower your sons overall academic profile but a 4.0 is a strong indicator that he is a good student, so the coach may be counting on that as a boost. The C-band athletes would not get in on their own (many if not most B-bands would not either at a top NESCAC) so the other C-band recruits may have a lower grades, or similar test scores, a lack of strong APs, etc.
Even though the coach probably has a good idea, I would think that many or most C-bands are not a slam dunk for the coach and it is a combination of the students resume with admissions and how hard the coach wants to push, which is a function of how big of an impact player he would be.
Also, as others have mentioned and I can tell you from experience, a lot can change from now to when it is time to be offered a slot. Sometimes even on the kids/families end as they may decide the school is not a good fit.
2 Likes
I think my sonās coach cashed all of his chits with admissions in to get a kid he got the last cycle. My understanding is a very borderline student, but also a probable NCAA placer as freshman.
If coaches even give your son the time of day as a C band player, they anticipate he is an impact player and they will be pushing hard to get him in. They arenāt always successful, but also they usually have a pretty good idea, especially since several coaches are talking to him I am guessing he will be fine. If only one or 2 coaches seemed willing to take a chance on him, then I would be more concerned that he was going to be a struggle to get by admissions.
1 Like
Hi there. I just saw your note and would love more info about Emory. My son is a senior at a rigorous private school, where he takes the most rigorous classes. He has a fine motor issue (writing/keyboarding is very slow), a huge gap between his cognitive scores and processing speed scores (something like 144 and 112). He gets double time for tests and in-class writing assignments, He also gets double time for standardized tests. To top all that off, he had a bone marrow transplant and has a few medical issues. This makes choosing a college difficult. I would appreciate any information you might have about Emory and accomodations.
1 Like
Sent you a PM!
I canāt speak about your sonās ability to thrive in a rigorous NESCAC environment, but it sounds like he has potential to thrive in the setting! I am a first-year at Amherst College, which is often considered one of the most demanding and academically prestigious NESCACs, and while it lives up to its reputation in both respects, the support network here is also WONDERFUL. All of the professors I am working with are super understanding and compassionate toward their students, and there are numerous resources (writing center, peer tutoring, specialized advisors, etc.) available to those who want them.
If your son is able to get admitted into one of these schools (Iām sure he will be able to, especially since some of the schools, Amherst included, greatly deemphasize test scores in their admissions decisions). Also, all of these schools are test optional for this coming admissions cycle, so even if your son is disappointed in his score he wonāt need to send it.
Feel free to reach out with any questions about coursework or anything else (I can speak better on behalf of Amherst than other NESCAC schools, of course). Best of luck to your son! Iām rooting for him!
@PerformingDude
Are you recruited athlete? If so, how are you balancing
school and your sport? Are the professors understanding
of student athletes? How are the other athletes handling it
in your opinion? Thanks!
I hear you. Our S at Bowdoin (three season athlete with XC, winter track, track) and is a math and physics double major. Not a recruited athlete, accepted in RD (1540 SAT, NMF, rigorous high school) so can do the workā¦but he is always stressed for time. Practice on weekdays from 4:00-7:00, plus three early morning lift sessions in the gym. That eats away four hours every day including weekends and he has very very little time for anything but his sport and homework. He generally canāt make it to any special events like guest lectures and, although he would like to do stuff with the outdoor club, thereās no time.
So, long story short, I agree. At least for the more selective NESCACs, the work load is intense and adding a sport really pushes the limits of having enough time to do both well.
2 Likes
Iām not sure what you mean by āunderstanding of student athletesā. The athletes we know at Bowdoin get no special treatment in classes. Their assignments are the same and due on the due dates. Tests arenāt rescheduled as far as I know. I think the question should be āis the coach understanding of the studentsā academic schedules?ā Over the last two years, I think S has asked his coach twice if he can report to practice a little late or leave a little early because he wanted to go see a professor and that hasnāt been a problem but, clearly, he doesnāt ask very often. Twice a week this semester, he has labs until 4:00 and goes right to practice. He doesnāt leave the lab early. The school is small so heās able to get to practice by 4:10.
Students at these LACs are students first but I bet some coaches are more down with that than others. Itās a good question to ask or try to feel out the answer talking to current students on the team. Time management is a real thing for these kids. Professors arenāt giving them a break.
4 Likes
College in general is a lot of work, and it is (and should be for that matter) a significant step up from high school. The general rule with athletics (and with other extra-curriculars that have significant time demands) is that there is less time to do the same amount of work. Counterintuitively, however, this often results in the student-athlete becoming more organized and thus more efficient work-wise. It is not uncommon for student athletes who are out of season to feel that they are less efficient.
I am sure that Amherst heaps on the work, but Iāll bet Amherst does not assign appreciably more work than, for example, Connecticut College. It is possible that the LACs assign more papers than some large universities, but only because smaller class sizes allow for it. If you have ever looked at a stack of papers to grade, 20 is doable, 150 is - well - an enormous stack. I suspect that the assignments are fairly comparable.
Think back on your own college experience. It may have been virtually impossible in the beginning, but by senior year, you were wondering what was so tough about it. Same thing with grad or professional school - the demands were much greater than undergrad, but looking back, you only wish your job was as easy as grad school.
Bottom line - we all have 24 hours in a day. Most kids will adapt to the time constraints and academic demands. Let your kid go to the school that fits him the best and the academics will take care of itself.
1 Like
Also remember that you are only in class 15-17 hours per week. The rest of the time you have to schedule yourself to get your work done. Depending on the rules you were raised with, your āchoreā time might be reduced too. No more cutting the grass, cleaning the family room, cooking and grocery shopping. Most freshmen live in a dorm and walk up and eat whatās available in the cafeteria. You might be adding laundry to your chores or, if you were doing your own at home, just trying to schedule a time when the washers and dryers are free.
Studying in college is just different than in hs. My daughter found college a lot easier to schedule her life. Her team had its scheduled time in the lifting room (sure, it was at 5:30 am!) but she didnāt have to drive over to the gym and fight for time on the machines like she did at home. Her meals were made for her, morning, noon and night. She didnāt have to take the ābusy workā classes that were required in high school like āpersonal financialā that required a lot of fake charts and stupid assignment with store receipts or sample menus. She wasnāt dependent on hs friends for rides (everything was walkable) and didnāt have to wait for them to talk after practice.
Athletes do have to schedule their time, but so do band members and those majoring in art and needing studio time, those who want to get involved in student government. You canāt do it all.
1 Like
Based on my kidsā experiences, I do think there are different tiers of workload at different schools. Obviously I canāt speak to every school at every level. But I can pretty confidently say that my kids would all agree that at least from their collective experiences, an Ivy is a much higher workload than a non-elite state flagship, which had a much higher workload than a directional state college. My Amherst daughter seems to be working harder than her brother is at an Ivy, although frankly she is a more diligent student than he is, so I donāt know that is a fair comparison, plus she is a first year so itās a bit early to make that call.
Amherst to Connecticut I canāt say because I have no experience at Connecticut, but I would guess Amherst would be just a bit heavier. Also even if neither school is grading on a scale, the reality is that you are going to have to study a bit harder at Amherst to have a comparable standing in the class. Those kids are coming in with slightly higher test scores, so are presumably better test takers. That isnāt a valuable real life school or fair measure of intelligence, but it is what you are measured on in college so you will have to adjust your studying for the competition.
I feel like this is a rabbit hole I shouldnāt go down, because people are going to defend their kidsā schools and types of schools. And there will be schools that donāt fit the pattern. But in general the more selective schools are going to require a bit more work to keep up.
However, I agree that you just have to adjust to what it is, and most kids probably feel like what they are asked to do is a lot compared to HS. And I know quite a few athletes who are pretty ruthless with their time management. They donāt have time to complain that they donāt have enough time. They just get to work. It seems like the first semester or year is a bit rough, then most of them figure it out. And that pattern doesnāt seem to be different if we are talking about a directional state school or if we are talking about MIT.
3 Likes
When I was at a nescac, the best one of course 
, most of the recruited athletes were just fine with the workload. Yes there were a few who struggled mightily their entire time at the school. No the professors did not cut them any slack. There will be no slack when your athlete is in class with an athlete who was also a national merit scholar. There are tons of kids who are wickedly smart and good athletes so professors donāt have to make any allowance. For the kids that struggled it was painful to watch.
One thing your kid must nail down in advance is how the coach will react when kid has a class conflict. Most coaches will adjust or allow but there are a few old school coaches (maybe theyāve all retired) who will give kids a hard time for being late to practice because of a lab or something.
2 Likes
D was a STEM major and student athlete at a NESCAC. She became a much better time manager, and in fact made better grades in season because she was forced to regiment her time. Coaches were very understanding of lab and other academic requirements. Iād say her workload was equivalent to sonās at an Ivy (Econ with lots of quant courses). Majors that are midterm/finals based are probably easier to manage for athletes vs those heavy in labs, papers and problem sets.
1 Like
At the very selective lacs, there is going to be less of a ārangeā of students with regard to intellectual ability. Pretty much everyone is going to be super smart. Those schools are D3 and itās much easier to find very smart D3 athletes - thereās just a lot of kids who can play D3 and have strong academic backgrounds. There may be more of a range at the Ivy D1 level because those athletes are rarer.
2 Likes
I think there is a lot of truth to this. My son is a clear D1 athlete but a much less clear Ivy League student. Heās regular smart, not super smart. He can keep up for the most part, but he probably works harder for Bās than some of his classmates work for Aās.
2 Likes
This thread, to me, represents the best and, well, not the best, of the forums. True of any public forum I guess. Itās also apropos of another thread discussing the NESCAC as a branding exercise, and the strides it has made, deliberate or not, in establishing itself as the small college answer to the Ivy League brand. I mean, does anyone ever say, āI want to go Centennial,ā even though itās loaded with great schools?
I commend @dadof4kids and @cinnamon1212 for their honest contributions, and based on my own experience I tend to bias in that direction. Iām not acquainted with the outcomes data on marginal admits, but having said that Iāve experienced being in over my head academically and watched one of my three go through something similar. I guess because of that I tend to shy away from categorically precluding based on limited information. I remember the feeling of being lost and lacking familiarity with short-hand references and other subtle things (think ED Hirschās Cultural Literacy) that, in the aggregate, contribute to academic success. I also remember it getting better over time as I continued to apply myself. @EconPop had an excellent post about this kind of experience on the Smith forum.
As an aside, given the (ridiculous) amount of my life spent in and around athletics, I know a fair number of Ivy League and equivalent people who will be the first to tell you they couldnāt have ever been admitted w/o recruiting. So, the marginal admit population. Sure, a good # have shared it was an adjustment, and some really struggled. But not all, and even those who did are doing well now. This is the US. You donāt need to graduate with a 3.8 to do well in life. The last person to look at my undergrad transcript was a LS admissions officer.
This, to me, is very different from pursuing D1 athletics without a D1 body. If you magically find yourself on a D1 football field and donāt belong, youāre 100% going to fail (and get hurt) and no amount of ātry hardā will help you.
7 Likes
I tend to agree with this.
1 Like