Agree with all your questions for the coach --coaches will answer detailed questions – “where am I on your list” – but only if you ask. And walking out of those meetings with just a general sense of “they’d like to see this kid on the team,” without knowing more specifics, is just not helpful to making an informed decision.
4 Likes
Agree this is very important.
My experience and I think that of the other parents on the board is that coaches are usually very honest, if asked the right question. Even with popular sports like basketball, when you get to the college coaching level everybody knows everybody, and no one wants a reputation for lying to kids.
Having said that, they are not all forthcoming. They will answer the hard questions honestly if you ask, but many are fine to let you assume you are higher on their list than you really are if you don’t ask.
3 Likes
Yes, my D3 kid and I learned that from experience, after reading too much into some early positive responses. It all worked out, but we realized it was very easy to hear what we wanted to hear and not ask for more details. So I’m a big fan of asking exactly the questions you identify – where am I on your list, are you supporting my application, how many students with this level of support and my type of stats have been admitted, deferred, denied over the past five years, do I have a roster spot if I apply ED, do recruits get cut as 1st years etc.
5 Likes
Thanks! Found CC to be very helpful through this process. kid will make final decision between 2 NESCAC and one other lAC that is having a great year, let’s say, in his sport. Very fortunat. But this has been a crazy ride and I want to document as much of our issues as possible for the next family to read these posts in coming years! Cheers all.
1 Like
…“People generally tend to think if your kid is good enough to play varsity at the HS level then D3 is open for them…Short version: you need to be notably good at your sport. The impact player.”
Good points and agree though along with the strength of the school or program, that also can differ by the sport, and can also depend if it is women’s or men’s team. For some sports, even common sports like basketball, the women’s talent pool is not as deep as men’s so for some sports it not that difficult to find a D3 team/school to play on.
1 Like
This, 100%
The best way to measure up your kid is to go to some large camps/showcases where the level of school you are shooting for are recruiting. My kids played for large ranked public HS teams in a state which is a hotbed for their sports. In the camps where it was predominantly D1 recruits, we could see that physically they were just not quite strong/fast/skilled enough, although they clearly were at the top level in camps with mostly D3 schools. We did sit by parents whose kids played varsity ball at smaller private type schools and leagues at D3 camps. Many of them were overmatched to the point where there was almost a safety issue, e.g. I don’t think some of them had faced pitchers throwing low to mid 80’s or had to face batted balls coming at them with pace that a good D3/low D1 player can hit it.
Yep. In my experience, for team sports actual showcase tournaments playing with your team are best. My D had a tendency to play to the level of her competition, which was frustrating, but God bless her when the stakes were high and playing against the best, she showed up and was one of those kids who really benefited from showcases. That’s what generated the e-mails, often from schools she (we) hadn’t contacted.
OTOH, if your kid is in a sport that involves a stopwatch or measuring tape, it’s different. Track is running times, heights cleared, and lengths jumped or thrown. Rowing is height and erg time. You need verified performances to get their attention. It can start with an e-mail but it will be substantiated.
Lastly, I believe my Ds benefited from competing with nationally recognized clubs. It gives the kid some amount of credibility before the scrutiny starts.
My last bit of advice in terms of strategies I employed in helping the kids think through it all is to include schools at which you’ll be some coaches top priority recruit. You might say obvious and easier said than done, but remember it’s how good you are relative to what that coach can reasonably attract. This is what makes NESCAC so competitive for athletes in that most / all NESCAC schools get their athletes. Just look at the OP’s post. Kid wants to “go NESCAC”. It’s a pull. But even within NESCAC, all is not equal. Conn has very solid women’s soccer, but crew is weak.
It’s going to be extraordinarily hard to be Williams’ top priority women’s soccer recruit. It’s going to be very difficult to be Wesleyan’s top tennis recruit. Bates is the best D3 women’s crew program in the country, so he can be picky. With that in mind, I think it a good idea to at least include some high academic schools with weak programs in your kid’s sport. Sounds silly, but trust me (based on experience), the sports situation really may not work out even if you get to a top program. The school is the school, so if it doesn’t work, damage has been controlled. That was something I was able to convince my Ds to consider. High academic/ low-end sports program. You can still reach, but doing this will increase your odds of a great Plan B being there for you if you need it.
6 Likes
Not to mention that it’s useful to have multiple offers to bring up in your communications. Coaches seem to react quicker and more directly when they know you aren’t their only option. Perhaps some FOMO plays into it as well.
2 Likes
If you are high enough on a coach’s list, once they are aware an offer is out there, things move really quickly. I think it is good to mention, although some of this may just happen too. At least in wrestling, those guys all talk to each other.
S had been telling everyone that he wasn’t making any decisions until after the big national tournament at the end of July. So most coaches were keeping in touch but not making offers or putting on pressure. One coach made him an offer in January, I think he was trying to put on a bit of pressure because he correctly assumed he was the first choice. So again correctly, he thought if he dangled that out there he could get S wrapped up before the serious attention started in July, which is kind of when wrestling recruiting for all but the very tippy top guys really heats up.
I did run into a coach recruiting my son at a tournament a couple days later and did tell him. But a few other coaches who had been playing it slow called him with offers. I think he went from zero to 5 in less than a week. My son didn’t tell those coaches there was an offer in play, but they found out through the grapevine and wanted to make sure they let him know that they had money (or admission help, depending on the school) for him too.
1 Like
We did this, at least initially before he moved up as high as he did on the recruiting board. I got some grief from coaches and parents for taking him to a D3 school when we did unofficial visits after soph year, but I wanted to make sure he had a high academic home to go to if he didn’t keep getting better. As it turned out, his academics may have been an issue (although I think he also would have done better if he wasn’t being told by Ivy coaches that he didn’t have to), but at the end of that trip the D3 coach told my son that he was probably going to be their #1 recruit, he just had to decide if he was going to go D1 or if he wanted to trade that for a great academic experence and a shot at being a multi-time national champ.
There are lots of days I think he chose incorrectly, FYI.
2 Likes
Can someone offer advice on the difference in the workload/ time commitment for a typical D3 vs. D1 program? Our nephew is starting to also get some D! interest . His Dad was a D! athlete like 30 years ago and at a school where academics at the time might have taken a back seat to football. My concern is being at a school where he is over-matched academically and also if the sport overloads the school work. The kid is pretty good but not where he is going to make a living playing Bball.
We were in this situation. I also had a work colleague who had three D1 kids, two Pac 12 and one Ivy, one of whom was an Elite 11 QB recruit with offers from everybody. I think it depends on the sport and the program. If you’re going to be the QB at a P5 school, you basically have an almost full-time job while you’re in school. Meetings, lifts, meetings, practices, PT, etc. etc. My colleague said he was exhausted at the end of the day when it came time for HW. On the other hand, those kids get a TON of academic support, which includes encouraging them to major in something manageable.
Others can speak to the Ivy League and other high-end academic D1 outside of the P5. I would imagine it’s a challenge.
At D3, the level of academic school you’re talking about makes a big difference. Sports are sports. They’re tiring, and you can’t just miss practice because you have a test the next day. And, at least at the high end academic schools, you’re not going to get a break from the faculty.
So many variables, it’s really hard to do a D1 vs. D3 comparison. If what you’re getting at is whether the athletic commitment at a D3 is more relaxed in general, I’d say for the most part no. But are we talking about SEC football vs. D3 Squash? Then yes, of course. Very different athletic expectations. But make no mistake: D3 coaches are paid to have successful programs and they want to win.
2 Likes
There can be a big difference depending on the sport or no difference at all. At a D1 power 5 conference football team, there is a lot of travel, practice time, film to watch, workouts and actual practice. I really think travel is the biggest difference if the team has to travel on a Thursday for a Sat game or if the travel includes a long bus ride.
A top D3 program can have almost the same time commitment as a D1 program. D1’s sometimes get to travel by plane but most D3’s are on a bus. Look at the schedules for the last few years and see how much travel is involved.
1 Like
One more comment, several Ivies, including Brown and Dartmouth have cut back on programs for golf, soccer, tennis, squash, etc. since there was a perception that the teams were not competitive and that recruiting for these slots was reducing the quality of the student body overall and reducing equity for underrepresented groups. For schools like Williams, it looks like they have been more able to maintain and build strong teams with good academic credentials, while still going more to recruit pell grant and first gen students.
Agree it depends on the sports, such as the commitment required at a D1 Power 5 football as mentioned above.
In general I believe D3s will not travel as far or as much as many full D1 program as the D3 leagues are typically more local. This is not always the case but the the ACC comes to mind.
When you say cut back, how does that translate to recruiting? Are they recruiting less players? They still need to maintain enough on the roster to field a team.
Yes, I have not heard of soccer (mens or womens) being affected at those schools. When soccer is affected, it means a school is getting rid of its men’s team. There isn’t really a middle ground.
2 Likes
I don’t think that’s necessarily the reason why some of these sports were cut, and some have since been reinstated…
This year, Dartmouth reinstated all 5 varsity teams that they had cut in 2020:
Brown reinstated it’s track, field, and cross country teams after cutting them in 2020…primarily because those sports are the most diverse on campus. https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/11/us/brown-university-reinstates-athletic-programs-trnd/index.html
3 Likes
It’s somewhat inapposite to drop Williams into a conversation about Ivy League athletics. The Ivy League is D1, which has all manner of implications, starting with the reality that the athletic pool from which they draw is smaller than that of Williams. From a budgetary point of view, the Ivy sports teams travel on airplanes and spend more time in hotels than do D3 athletes. In Seattle I have routinely been able to watch various Ivy League schools compete against the University of Washington.
1 Like
Having a kid that was a recruited athlete at an Ivy I can attest that they do seem to travel more and further than a typical D3, or a NESCAC school. The Ivy league is fairly local travel though the Ivy’s also did not seem to have any issues with scheduling non-league games or meets against schools that require travel by plane.
2 Likes