<p>If i wanted to ever study/live in the netherlands, what kind of language should i know? i mean, i know dutch is the official language, but i can't find US schools that teach dutch. I know how to speak french and obviously english. Should i take courses in german? or will i have to teach dutch to myself?</p>
<p>Also, what do you think of dutch universities compared to other universities in the world? How do they compare to top US schools?</p>
<p>Language</p>
<p>You can do just fine with English alone. If there is no Dutch course in your school I recommend going to your local library and getting a Dutch-for-beginners book. It won't help you learn to speak, but it will help you learn to read and write. It's also free.</p>
<p>Once you arrive in the Netherlands there are Dutch courses you can take but they are very expensive - even the ones offered by universities. If you go as an immigrant however, you will be forced to take free Dutch language courses which are offered by the government. Unfortunately as a foreign student you are expected to pay to learn Dutch.</p>
<p>Don't bother with German; the Dutch really don't appreciate it when you go there and start speaking german to them. I also speak French but haven't found it useful at all in the Netherlands. Handy for weekend trips to Belgium though. Speaking Dutch does make your life easier because many Dutch people are extremely xenophobic and will treat you differently (not as nice) if you are foreigner who doesn't speak the language, even if they speak english just fine. </p>
<p>Studying in the Netherlands</p>
<p>If you want to study in the Netherlands you don't necessarily have to speak a word of Dutch. Dutch universities are extremely international, and offer a wide variety of degrees taught entirely in English. (yes, that means every course from year one to graduation) At the bachelor level English degrees are most common in the fields of economics, econometrics, mathematics, and statistics. At the masters level there are literally hundreds of programs to choose from, all entirely in English.</p>
<p>Reputation of Dutch Universities</p>
<p>All major Dutch universities are publicly funded, and as such the difference between top schools and crap schools is not as pronounced as in the United States. As in the Canadian university system, there are no "elite" Dutch universities. The top 5 or 6 Dutch schools tend to rank between #50 and #100 in the world, depending on which ranking you look at. Typically the University of Amsterdam and Erasmus University Rotterdam are ranked highest of the Dutch universities. From there the pecking order changes from year to year, reshuffling Delft, Eindhoven, Utrecht, Wageningen, Leiden and occasionally some others.</p>
<p>Dutch universities are probably best known for their research in the fields of economics, econometrics and international law, but this can vary depending on the school.</p>
<p>How do Dutch universities compare to Harvard and Yale? They don't. (obviously) The top 20 is mostly American universities, and the best Dutch universities are pretty consistently ranked 50-100. American schools with a roughly similar international ranking range as top Dutch schools are as follows: Brown, BU, Vanderbilt, U Wisconsin-Madison, Penn State, and Dartmouth. </p>
<p>In the UK: Warwick, Kings College London
In France: Sciences-Po</p>
<p>Of course some people are probably thinking, "WHAT? How can Brown and Dartmouth be ranked in a similar range as some Dutch schools I haven't even heard of??" Well surprise surprise, in Europe many people know the top Dutch schools, while few are familiar with Brown and Dartmouth. Forgive me for stating the obvious, but rankings aren't everything; geography and regional prestige are important considerations too when asking how a certain degree or university brand name measures up.</p>
<p>That's my bit, hope it helps.</p>
<p>I'm not sure whether I agree on Dutch universities being as good as Brown or Dartmouth, but they are definitely comparable to BU or UCLA.<br>
But please don't exaggerate like that about the xenophobia. I agree that it's not the most tolerant country anymore, but it's getting better. It also really matters whether you're Arab/Middle-Eastern or Caucasian. Anyway, you'll be fine. I'm Turkish myself and I'm treated well most of the time. Yeah, most of the time, sadly. So it does exist.</p>
<p>nauru, very informative.... thanks</p>
<p>I totally not agree on dutch unis are as good as Brown and dartmouth...
Look at endownment, student/faculty ratio, quality of professors, and possibilities of doing research... And if that doesn't matter to you, consider the fact that US students are far more motivated to get high scores than Dutch student...</p>
<p>According to international rankings, Brown/Dartmouth are generally ranked IN THE SAME RANGE as the top Dutch universities as well as less prestigious American university brand names. (Please don't blame me, I didn't make the rankings.) Does that mean they are equal, or that cross-admits to Dutch schools and low ivies would go 50-50 each way? Probably not. And frankly, given the choice to study at Brown or a Dutch uni I would choose Brown. </p>
<p>As I said, rankings aren't everything. I would easily choose Georgetown over Amsterdam for grad school, and Georgetown doesn't even break the top 100.</p>
<p>Duygu-</p>
<p>I'll rephrase what i said: Xenophobia is worryingly widespread in the Netherlands. </p>
<p>"It also really matters whether you're Arab/Middle-Eastern or Caucasian."</p>
<p>Sure, it's a tolerant country... but apparently some races are more tolerable than others. </p>
<p>Anyway, this thread is supposed to be about university, not racism. So let's just agree to disagree, and stay on topic.</p>
<p>You mean the Times rankings?
That ranking is laughable, universities are shifting 50 places up and down each year.. not very reliable, isn't it :D</p>
<p>and they even include number of nobel prizes won by the university, I don't think that is the right methodlogy to measure the current quality of an institution.</p>
<p>I'll say it again. (Third time, here we go!) RANKINGS AREN'T EVERYTHING. And I don't feel like arguing which ranking is less inaccurate than the other, as they are all imperfect. They are just a very approximate tool that can help put things in perspective. That's why I discuss them in terms of ranges rather than specific numbers.</p>
<p>Well ok Never mind... I misunderstood your last message.. I thought you said that you would choose a dutch university over Brown..
I was really tired when I wrote my post:P</p>
<p>Which Grad schools have you applied to Nauru??</p>
<p>Fair enough. </p>
<p>In the US I'm currently in the process of applying to NYU, Georgetown, Johns Hopkins, U Michigan Ann Arbor and U Chicago, in that order of preference.</p>
<p>I'm also applying to several good schools in the UK (some of which I would choose over the American ones) and one in Canada. Conveniently I don't need a safety because I've already been approved for a place in the masters program at my current school. :)</p>
<p>guys,</p>
<p>There is something here you aren't realizing. The international rankings are for UNIVERSITIES not COLLEGES. There is a huge difference!!!!!!!!!!</p>
<p>Brown and Dartmouth are undergrad focused colleges, meaning few if any graduate schools. So whereas they have top 10 UNDERGRADUATE schools, they can't compete fairly when the university is looked at as a whole. For example, how can an undergrad only dept compete against a school with PhDs?? </p>
<p>The US college system is structured very different from the international systems. Here, you have to look at undergrad and graduate school as different entities.</p>
<p>Sweet help, guys, especially nauru.</p>
<p>I'm white, so nobody's going to think i'm a terrorist (hopefully). I'm also actually toying with the idea in part because, in addition to thinking it's one of the coolest countries in the world, i think i might wanna do music theory/composition as a major and one of my idols is dutch and studied at a conservatory in the Hague. Thus, the university rankings REALLY don't matter for me.</p>
<p>By the way, i AM looking for grad study. It's a little late for undergrad since i'm already a senior in HS.</p>
<p>Wow, I would absolutely love to live in the Hague. A friend of mine moved there from Amsterdam a year ago and he seems to be really enjoying it. In terms of real estate, the same amount of money gets you a far nicer place in the Hague than in Amsterdam. The city is smaller and doesn't attract as many tourists and experimental-phase American exchange students. They've also got a kickass beach there that goes on for miles... and in the summer it is packed with beautiful Dutch chicks (many from Leiden University) who often go topless. Don't get me wrong, Amsterdam has been a blast the last couple of years, but honestly the Hague is where I wish I could be this year. The international criminal court is there too. I was invited by a prosecutor I met in the airport to come and watch the Slobodan Milošević trial, but then he died. (Mr. M, not the prosecutor) Looking forward to Charles Taylor in 2007! The school located closest to the Hague - and the beach - is Leiden University. Haven't visited it though so I have no idea what it's like to study there. I don't know much about schools outside the major Dutch universities, so if you want music conservatories you'll have to investigate on your own.</p>
<p>One thing you may want to consider is that if you're really into the music scene there's really a lot going on in Amsterdam. No matter what you're into, from symphonies in the Concert Gebouw conducted by pompous Italian jackasses to government-subsidized ambient sound recitals performed in a small room by nerds with laptops, Amsterdam has something for you. As for contemporary music, the concerts are endless. For a city of around 800,000 Amsterdam attracts WAY more performers than it deserves. It seems like every major and minor performer makes a stop there, even if there isn't much of a market for their music. This results in some of the biggest names in music today performing in very small venues, often with tickets selling for rock-bottom prices. Meanwhile, back in North America, people pay hundreds to watch their idols on a jumbo screen from the back a stadium with 75,000 other people. (something tells me these artists put Amsterdam on their tour schedule without really considering whether there's a market for their music... probably just want A'dam on the tour so they can take a canalboat ride and smoke some cheeba) Anyway, I'm not sure how the music scene in smaller, quieter Den Haag would compare.</p>
<p>The Netherlands is an awsome place to be, but if you are going there do not go to the Hague. Go to Amsterdam or Rotterdam, those 2 cities also have the best schools there in my opinion:
Erasmus College = Great Business and Enginering
UVA= Not the one in Virginia</p>
<p>Leiden is also a great city with a good school who specializes in History which is kick ass too.</p>
<p>The music scene is the best in Amsterdam but Rotterdam is also pretty popular, and closer to other good places such as Tilburg and Nijmegen who each have decent music/bar scenes.</p>
<p>The Dutch are tolerant(well ish), often good looking and drinking beer/wine is legal when you are 16 and everything else is legal when you are 18 that i think says it all.
Oh yeah and their Colleges aren't bad either, but like Science Po is probobly alot better.
Cheers</p>
<p>Oh and btw, who the hell put Brown and a Dutch University on the same ranking list ? That is just screwed up. The only thing the dutch u's are better at is cost. At Brown you would lose like 40.000 a year while at a dutch one it could be closer to 5-10. But then again US schools include more and have more options and facilities for the students while in a Dutch school you are basically on your own.</p>
<p>"The Netherlands is an awsome place to be, but if you are going there do not go to the Hague. Go to Amsterdam or Rotterdam, those 2 cities also have the best schools there in my opinion:
Erasmus College = Great Business and Enginering
UVA= Not the one in Virginia"</p>
<p>I agree that business in great in Rotterdam, but you'd be much better off in the Hague than in Rotterdam if you want tolerance. Also, Erasmus cannot possibly have a better enigneering program than TU Delft (duh), which is very near to the Hague.
And if you're interested in international law/foreign affairs, Leiden university is the place to be. Its international law program is located in the Hague, which is the home town of the ICJ, ICTY, the ministry of foreign affairs, and about all the foreign embassies in the country.</p>
<p>As for conservatories, I would recommend the four of Randstad: Amsterdam, The Hague, Utrecht and Rotterdam. I'm not sure which instrument you play, but in general I think Amsterdam is the best conservatory, followed closely by the Hague. For piano Utrecht is better than Rotterdam IMO, but it's not a big difference.
Conservatory of Amsterdam is situated in the middle of Amsterdam, on about 100 m distance from the Museumplein, Concertgebouw, Van Gogh Museum and also not far from the Rijksmuseum. If you are looking for musical education only, the conservatory can be a good place to be. Most recent enrollment included over 50% foreigners. The conservatory itself is relatively small though, with just one building. It has its own hall, the Bachzaal, which is next to the Music School of Amsterdam. They have a nice Steinway there, but the hall is also relatively small.
Most people live at home. There's no campus and not much to do in the building itself. There's a tiny cantine with about 4 tables, an Internet room and loads of practice rooms, but that's it.
If you want to enjoy a broad education and enjoy the city, the Conservatory is probably not the best place to be. If you only want to excel in music, you should apply to it. </p>
<p>I don't know much about the other conservatories. </p>
<p>I agree that Amsterdam and Rotterdam are probably the most interesting places to be. You should make your choice depending on which university or city suits you the best. Amsterdam is quite historical, with old buildings along cannels, has a lively art and music scene and is a very nice city, whereas Rotterdam is a much more modern city, famous for its great industry and harbour. The last time I went there is a couple of years ago, when I was somewhere between 6 and 10 :P, and I don't remember much of it. </p>
<p>Note that The University of Amsterdam is spread all over the city. It has no campus and the buildings are not the nicest I've seen. The Free University of Amsterdam does have a sort of a campus, though not compareble to a US campus in size.
The Erasmus University is famous for its economy and management programs.
Engineering is probably the best at Delft (between Rotterdam and The Hague), while Eindhoven is mainly good at Electrotechnology (Philips is based there).
Leiden is an excellent place for (international) law, international affairs, history, and languages (e.g. Chinese).
University of Amsterdam excels in similar fields as Leiden (arguable).
Nijmegen is famous for its medical program. </p>
<p>That's more or less everything I know about Dutch universities. Don't ask me for professional help... I'm just a 14 year old Chinese boy in one of the most strict Christian areas in the Netherlands :o who hasn't even chosen his 'profile'.</p>
<p>well for a 14 year old "SGP boy" you know quite a bit about Dutch Higher Education. It was no contest with my profile... E&M ! with CKV3B = Tekenen haha</p>
<p>Haha i just read the OP
and i know about 50 people who would have beat you up if you mixed a Dutchman up with a German.
haha ... people still have a pretty bitter view on Germany, at least in the west they do.</p>