<p>Hi all,</p>
<p>I'm looking for recommendations of some great neuroscience/biology PhD prorams abroad. I've been looking at the NZ/Australia universities, but I'd like to get a general feel for the neuroscience community from those who already live or have lived abroad. </p>
<p>Thanks!
J</p>
<p>What’s your particular reason for wanting to do a PhD abroad? What’s your particular reason for looking at Australia and New Zealand? If it’s because of concerns about language, that shouldn’t be an issue; internationally most high-ranking PhD programs in the field are in English.
There is an important difference between the ways PhDs are done in the US vs abroad. In the US, there is a course component and it is usually not preceded by a master’s degree of some sort. This means that a bachelor’s plus US PhD is seen as more “valuable” in the academic world than a bachelor’s plus foreign PhD without the course component. In Germany, for example, students generally complete the bachelor’s + master’s (or the German equivalent) together at their undergrad institution, then obtain the research PhD part separately.</p>
<p>Yes, English is actually a big factor. I’ve been to the UK before and while it’s nice to visit, I couldn’t live there. NZ/AU became my next idea. </p>
<p>I’m not quite clear what you mean when you say a foreign PhD is less “valuable” than an American PhD. As far as I’m aware, while courses are important to some extent, it’s the research that really matters. As such, I assume as long as the lab is producing quality work, it wouldn’t matter where the lab is located.</p>
<p>I am planning to pursue a PhD in neuroscience when I graduate, and I was specifically told by the professor I work with that if you have a US undergrad degree, you should get your PhD in the US (or Canada, I guess), not overseas. It’s not that there’s anything wrong with these programs; it’s just that the programs are set up differently. In the US, you take classes in your first two years of the PhD program. In Europe/Australia, you will have taken these classes before starting your PhD. Yes, the research is the primary part of a PhD, but you need the classes to have the background and demonstrate that you have the skills necessary to do research and learn new techniques, etc.</p>
<p>I’m still curious, though: why do you want to do your PhD overseas? Is it because it’s often shorter? Or because you want an international experience? If it’s this, your best bet would probably be to aim to do post-docs overseas. (Both of my dad’s brothers got their PhDs in the US, did post docs in Australia, and ended up becoming professors there.)</p>
<p>Ah, ok. Thanks for your insight. Yes, I was hoping for an international experience. I had considered doing a post-doc overseas, so I will keep that in mind. </p>
<p>What universities are you looking at in the US for your PhD?</p>
<p>My approach to getting an international perspective was an international co-op. I’m currently in Germany doing 6 months of full-time research. It’s definitely been great to get a perspective on the international component of research. If you can find some way to get an overseas experience before grad school, that could also be good. I hadn’t thought about doing an international post-doc before this, but now I can definitely picture myself doing that.</p>
<p>I’m looking neuroscience programs specifically related to computational and motor neuroscience, perhaps with a robotics component. I’ve identified a couple of professors and programs I’m interested in. My list is by no means complete, though, so if you come across anything interesting let me know.
A few that I’m considering at this point:
Northwestern
University of Chicago
USC
MIT
(The professor I’m currently working with for my undergrad at Northeastern has also said I could stay on for PhD, but I think I’d like to get a different perspective.)</p>
<p>I know that Harvard, as an example, has a strong neuroscience program, but the research isn’t in an area I’m interested in. To find schools that might be of interest to you, I’d talk to professors, other students, and look at the institutions of professors whose papers are related to your area of interest. Do you know what branch of neuroscience or biology you might be interested in?</p>
<p>I think it’s a very good idea to look elsewhere for your PhD, unless you have a stellar project going with your advisor. You’ve chosen some amazing schools for neuroscience grad work. I contemplated Northwestern and reached out to a couple professors. I didn’t get a lot of response, unfortunately. </p>
<p>Personally, I’m intersted in neuropharmacology and the the epigenetic changes of aging and neural plasticity. The professor I worked with as an undergrad suggested University of Virginia and UCSF. If you have any other suggestions, let me know!</p>
<p>nanotechnology - your comments are wildly inaccurate. Seeing as though you’re not even in graduate school, I’d hold my tongue before I dished out advice to others regarding the topic.</p>
<p>A US-based PhD is not more ‘valuable’ than a PhD obtained elsewhere.</p>
<p>It depends on where you did you undergraduate degree and where you plan to continue after your degree. I am not saying that there is anything wrong with international PhDs! It’s just a matter of the differences between the US and international systems.
I am speaking based on what I have been told by a couple of neuroscience professors who have worked and studied in both the US and Europe. I specifically asked their opinion on the subject because I was also considering international options, and this is what I was told.</p>
<p>Despite this being several months old…No, it doesn’t depend on where you completed your undergraduate degree. Nor does it depend on what you plan to do afterwards. Again, wildly inaccurate and misinformative. A “couple” of professors’ experiences is, at best, anecdotal.</p>
<p>I am reporting what I have heard in my interactions with professors and graduate students in the US and in Europe. I am not claiming this is the gospel truth, but this is what I have heard from various sources on two continents: if you started in the US and you want to continue in the US, get your PhD in the US. It may depend on the field as well, but this is what I have been told for neuroscience and robotics.</p>
<p>Jasari, what would you see would be the determining factors in whether this would be a good idea or not?</p>
<p>This isn’t wildly inaccurate information; it’s actually mostly accurate. My field is adjunct to neuroscience, btw.</p>
<p>Generally speaking (and I also have this on authority from professors who hire neuroscientists) academics who want to work in the United States should get their PhD in the United States. There are a few international universities that are considered comparable to the U.S., and where some U.S. scholars get their PhDs - Cambridge and Oxford are obvious ones in many fields, for example. But I’ve always heard the advice that if you want to be an American professor and you have the opportunity, get the American PhD. It’s not that an American PhD is more “valuable” objectively; it’s simply that American professors (who are doing the hiring) are more familiar with American departments and universities, and also with American scholars. They are more likely to know your dissertation adviser, the reputation of your department, etc., if you go to a U.S. institution than all but a handful of overseas ones.</p>
<p>I’m not so sure that doing the postdoc overseas is a great idea, either. The reason for that (as a scholar explained to me) is in the sciences, postdocs are expected to either have already or be in the process of securing U.S.-based federal grants, largely from the NIH and the NSF. The granting/funding system works differently internationally than it does here. But U.S.-based departments want faculty who they perceive as being likely to obtain federally funded grants to keep their research going and their prestige high. That’s why many scholars who DID obtain their PhDs internationally end up doing postdoctoral fellowships here in the States (at least in my field, which like I said is related to neuroscience).</p>
<p>Jasari, you have yet to give any reason why you believe that his information is “wildly inaccurate.”</p>
<p>A good idea for any future faculty member is to take a look at the faculties of schools at which you would like to teach. Where did they earn their PhDs? In my field, you rarely see professors at U.S. institutions (especially the very top RU/VH departments) who got their PhDs at international institutions. When they have, are from a concentrated handful of universities. I’m fairly certain that’s true for neuroscience as well. If you are still in undergrad, a good idea would be to ask your own faculty members at your university; they will know the norms and standards in your field. If you like you could also try asking at the Chronicle of Higher Education forums; there are lots of faculty members in STEM fields there. (I’ve heard this advice given there as well, too, btw.)</p>
<p>The other thing to remember, OP, is that if you have a U.S.-based bachelor’s degree, you’ll probably need to get a course/taught master’s before you can be accepted to a European or Australian PhD program, although this will vary by department. As nano said, and you seem to know, international PhDs typically don’t have coursework and start from the dissertation phase, which is why they are shorter in length. However, you won’t have the same graduate-level coursework yet - so you’ll need to take it before you can go to the PhD program. Of course, this isn’t a blanket rule; it’ll vary by school to school so you may need to ask first.</p>
<p>OP, if you want to live internationally for a few years - why don’t you take a few years before the PhD and do that? You could apply for a Fulbright grant and do some research at an international university for a year or two, or you could teach English abroad, or you could find some other opportunity to do international research. It’s also not completely uncommon for some U.S.-based doctoral students to find a reason to study at an international university as a visiting student for a few months to a year.</p>