<p>You're doing nothing but making a fool out of yourself.</p>
<p>Do you mind me asking something, how does it feel to be on my Ignore list?</p>
<p>Also I'm sure it's "Grammar Nazi" not doctor!</p>
<p>"URMS admitted at top school are just as qualified academically as their white/asian counterparts."</p>
<p>-Which would explain why their graduation rates are very near that of the White students'.... I think it little more than bigotry to write off the graduation rates as 'professor sympathy' toward the URMs.</p>
<p>black graduation rate has almost no correlation to the grades they achieve in school... As long as they don't get excessive Fs, thenthey graduate</p>
<p>The same with all students.....</p>
<p>fredburger & kk19131, i agree completely. however, it's futile to argue with collective synergy, kollegkid, and those a like, b/c there in a state of denial and are having a hard time looking past their egos and at the facts. but anywho...</p>
<p>here's an interesting quote on AA:</p>
<p>"reserving a parking space for a disabled person has only a miniscule effect on the availability of parking spots, but it frustrates virtually every driver who passes it"</p>
<p>QUOTE:
"black graduation rate has almost no correlation to the grades they achieve in school... As long as they don't get excessive Fs, thenthey graduate"</p>
<p>^you make no sense bobmallet1...</p>
<p>1st) like kk19131 said: "it's the same with every student"</p>
<p>2nd) did you not notice the average gpa in the Org. post.</p>
<p>"Whoa Collective synergy,</p>
<p>If anyone is making "faulty statements" it is you.</p>
<p>the article that OP cited (which is why it is imporant to cite your sources) is from the Journal on Blacks in Higher Education and they have been following Blacks & in higher education for a long time and can back up their research</p>
<p>The article does not discuss legacies (maybe you are mixing up threads). Just because you don't agree something, don't automatically put it off as faulty research especially since you haven't presented any literature reviews or studies to back up your assumptions (it will get you a failing grade in college)."</p>
<p>Sybbie, I was referring to the link he referenced in a later post, not in the original post, which focuses on legacy. Please learn to read the whole thread before you respond.</p>
<p>you'llsee, I like how you don't respond to my points and instead play the morally righteous card and say I'm ignorant.</p>
<p>It is not that outlandish to suspect that some professors may treat URM differently in class. Socially minded professors may very well be aware of the stresses experienced by URM in college. Pedagogy has not changed as rapidly as colleges have. Howell and Tuitt (2003) feel that URM are particularly disadvantaged and that professors do need to change methods in order to meet the needs of URM. Also, there seems to be some pressure for universities to graduate their URMs at a high rate so that their statistics will look good. This could certainly lead to top-down pressure on everyone to make things work. I've already had online classes myself with international students from Asia and Europe. The professors specifically said that they expected the native English speakers to be especially understanding of cyber-communications with the English learners in our classes. </p>
<p>Howell, A., & Tuitt, F. (Eds.). (2003). Race and higher education: Rethinking pedagogy in diverse college classrooms. Harvard Education Press.i</p>
<p>QUOTE:
"you'llsee, I like how you don't respond to my points and instead play the morally righteous card and say I'm ignorant."</p>
<p>you haven't made any valid points, only asumptions. i have offered statistical research data......14 years of research! back up what you say with facts, and then i'll respond. you claim the stats are faulty, but you have no evidence to prove it.</p>
<p>Lets take a look at a public university instead of a private one.</p>
<p>For black students at UC-San Diego, the class of 1995 had a four-year graduation rate of 26%. Three out of every four black freshman who entered in 1991 didnt earn their degrees in four years. That was terrible.</p>
<p>Luckily, the voters of California spoke, and things changed for the better. The class of 2001 had a four-year black graduation rate of 52%, double the 1995 number.</p>
<p>As a control, the four-year graduation rates for white and Asian students almost didnt change.</p>
<p>The five and six-year graduation rates for minorities labeled under-represented are within five points of the same rates for white students.</p>
<p>By comparison, Michigan, a university that until recently practiced racial preferences, did not have such nice numbers. Black graduation rates trailed white graduation rates by seventeen percentage points.</p>
<p>Of course, one could state that UC-San Diego is not an elite college, in which case I echo CollectivSynergys comment that no one has ever asserted that blacks do poorly at these elite institutions.</p>
<p>You're such an AA troll....</p>
<p>I kind of expect a better response from a student who will graduate from Northwestern next year.</p>
<p>Or am I being too demanding?</p>
<p>I've demonstrated this before, but for the record: you'llsee... is a troll, and a dumb one at that. He can either barely read or just chooses to misread in order to try to make his points, and has only the most elementary grasp of rhetoric. </p>
<p>And for the record, graduation rate data is almost completely meaningless at top schools. They make it very hard for you to drop out or fail, regardless of race. So proving any point with graduation rates is like trying to prove global warming by saying it rains. They're related in the sense that they are both weather patterns, but thats about it.</p>
<p>I don't get whats with you guys && the word "Troll"....To be honest, I really thought it was some kind of monster....ain't no it was a human being; People on CC have the right to state their opinions && belief.....if they say some misconception taht you disagree with then do sweat it.....thats their pitfall......Jesus Christ...&& some people on this damn thread are only bent on insulting other people than saying helpful advice</p>
<p>If you're reading this you know who you are!</p>
<p>The bottom line is that it is unfair to give an advantage to a less able student because of skin color. It is also unfair to high scoring blacks; in universities, everyone will suspect that they were among the less qualified applicants admitted because of race.</p>
<p>AA policies just perpetuate the racial divides in the United States by their mere existence. The policies themselves bring attention to race, arguably not a valid categorization method for those in the human race.</p>
<p>And if you want reference to what I was referring to when I said I had demonstrated it before, look up my previous posts for my posts in the thread "Any statistics to show that minorities due worse in college?".</p>
<p>Perhaps the premise of this thread is somewhat flawed:</p>
<p>"High-Ranking Institutions With Low Black Student Graduation Rates</p>
<p>Among the nation’s colleges and universities that are commonly rated as selective, the lowest black student graduation rate occurs at Carleton College in Minnesota. Currently only 66 percent of the black freshmen who enroll at Carleton College go on to graduate. Among the high-ranking universities, the lowest black student graduation rate is at Carnegie Mellon University in Pittsburgh. But the number of black students at Carnegie Mellon is not large. The curriculum at Carnegie Mellon is heavily directed toward science. This is probably a factor in the relatively low graduation rate of black students.</p>
<p>Far more disturbing is the poor black student graduation rate at the academically selective University of Michigan. This is a huge state university of 40,000 students. And performance there is a national bellwether. Only 68 percent of entering black students at the University of Michigan go on to graduate. Currently there are nearly 1,900 black students at the University of Michigan, the largest black enrollment of any high-ranking college or university. If these black students graduate at the same rate as have their peers in the recent past, about 600 of them will fail to earn their bachelor’s degree."</p>
<p>And then there are the special programs to help the less qualified members of the student body succeed: </p>
<p>"Many of the colleges and universities with high black student graduation rates have set in place orientation and retention programs to help black students adapt to the culture of predominantly white campuses. Mentoring programs for black first-year students involving upperclassmen have been successful at many colleges and universities. Other institutions appear to improve graduation rates through strong black student organizations that foster a sense of belonging among the African-American student population. The presence or absence of these programs may have some impact on graduation rates."</p>
<p>Blacks do worse than whites in graduation rate and GPA if you look at the numbers. I'm not saying they do terrible by any means. They are a step behind (a few percentage points) Its irrational for you to say 'whos says they do worse' They don't do better, and they don't tie, so what do they do?</p>
<p>It's sad that the question of AA often sinks so quickly. I think the OP doesn't help himself/herself with the righteous indignation -- there's no acceptance on his/her part that others sincerely look at the same situation and come up with different conclusions. </p>
<p>I'll posit this: graduation rates at the elite schools is not an indicator of the quality of any subset of students. The original statement that graduation rate equity means on subset doesn't do worse than other subsets is very flawed. Is it great that blacks graduate at fantastic rates at these schools? Absolutely. I don't doubt that most if not all of them are fantastic students -- however this analysis only says that on the whole, they (and most other subsets) graduate. Any info on GPAs? Acceptance rates to 1st choice grad schools? Other metrics on "not doing worse"?</p>
<p>As another poster said: it's not easy to fail out of one of the schools. </p>
<p>I recruit at a large urban school district for one of the HYPS colleges and over 90% of interested students are black. Frankly, most of them will do great wherever they opt to attend. I'm very happy for them. </p>
<p>OP and others: please calm down the excessive and close-minded rhetoric. You don't do your claims any favors by ranting at others.</p>
<p>Very true. U of M goes to Detroit high schools and HANDS free tuition to valedictorians at detroits best public schools, especially Cass Tech. I met a girl with a 3.8, valedictorian of Detroits best public school. She never filled out an application, was given free tuiton, and flunked out her first semester.</p>