<p>How does one flunk out after only one semester?</p>
<p>I worked at UM and also recruited in Detroit HS for these exact kids (for my alma mater, one of the HYPS colleges). UM actively seeks the Detroit top kids for sure. Perhaps 1MX's person didn't flunk out but could have failed greatly the 1st semester and didn't retn for the 2nd -- or other personal issues. </p>
<p>I know someone personally like that in my church -- valedictorian, free ride to UM. Drowned in the 1st year rigors. Transferred to a lesser state univ. Still didn't make it. She was valedictorian of her neighborhood HS -- but it was just awful.</p>
<p>Just to be clear: I've been critical of the OPs tone but I SUPPORT FULLY schools' desire for and the goal of diversity -- ethnic, economic, geographic, athletic, legacy, internationals, etc. I think AA has its place but don't support it being wielded like a sledgehammer -- or some sacred cow that should remain forever free from criticism.</p>
<p>** the legacy of the Civil Rights Movement **</p>
<p>" the legacy of the Civil Rights Movement " Blanket statements again? There is a terrific legacy to the civil rights movement aisgzdavinci. If you look around you'll see that. Why are you trying to disparage one of the greatest eras of growth and self-reflection of our country's history? Is everything finished? No. Were all the solutions the best? No. </p>
<p>Would you offer an alternative to the Civil Rights Movement?</p>
<p>"Would you offer an alternative to the Civil Rights Movement?"</p>
<p>If its better && successful; yeah</p>
<p>I don't mind people who are pro-AA but let's agree on two premises:</p>
<ol>
<li><p>AA confers a sizable advantage to minorities. It's amazing that there are still people who believe that URMs and ORMs are equally academically qualified.</p></li>
<li><p>Minorities do worse in college. Let's stop with pulling out the graduation rates at grade inflated schools. It's impossible to flunk those schools just as it's impossible to flunk med schools. They do everything they can to make sure you pass. Look at some schools that have less/no grade inflation: Berkeley, Cornell, Michigan, etc. and you'll see the truth. How do we know that minorities don't do as well in college as ORMs? LOOK AT GRAD SCHOOL STANDARDIZED TEST SCORES. Tests like the MCAT or the GRE's test what you learned in college and have some correlation with GPA. If minorities are performing just as well as ORM's in college, then we should expect their GRE/MCAT scores to be similar. Not the case. Not even close.</p></li>
</ol>
<p>Agreed! I'm probably more pro-AA than not but your two points are valid (despite what the obviously pro-AA OP seems to imply).</p>
<p>All I'm saying is that there are multiple causes and there is a lot of texture & subtlety to the entire discussion -- nothing is (literally) black and white.</p>
<p>^^^Right. I think it is perfectly legit to concede those two points and still be pro-AA. However, it's amazing how many pro-AAers try to deny what is plainly obvious. Esp. point #1. THAT'S THE FREAKIN' DEFINITION OF AA, to give minorities an advantage. It's an absolute contradiction to be pro-affirmative action and still maintain that URMs have the same academic qualifications as ORMs.</p>
<p>^^ Wrong norcalguy, you can be pro-AA nad still maintain that URMs have the same academic qualifications as ORMs+whites.</p>
<p>You see the fact is, AA is more of a tip bw/ 2 similarly qualified applicants. It isn't like a black kid who was ranked only in the top 15% with a 2300, will get into Harvard while a white kid or ORM who's a val with a 2400 does not get into Harvard. I think it's more like for a black kid who is ranked in the top 15% with a 2300 would get into Harvard over a white kid who's near the top of the class and a 2200. You see the applicants are similarly qualified and could both excel at a top institution. Here's AA in play.</p>
<p>you'll see is clearly not getting what's going on. AT ALL.</p>
<p>we never say urms are not qualified enough for the college (at least i dont)
MIT claims 70% of its applicants are qualified for MIT.
it's like passing grade is 60.</p>
<p>however, we're saying that they are far less qualified than asians (note: less qualified =/= underqualified, many ppl on CC seem to not have the brain or sense to understand this.... 100>60, 60 is still a passing grade.)</p>
<p>so your post proved NOTHING.</p>
<p>we all know urms who get accepted to top colleges are qualified "enough" for the academic work and stuff. we're just saying the ppl who are asian and get rejected are "more qualified" than those who got accepted (perhaps not all, but a lot)</p>
<p>"AA is more of a tip bw/ 2 similarly qualified applicants"</p>
<p>ahhhh that's what college admissions and politically correct ppl say.
political correctness = ***** </p>
<p>u always see more qualified asians get rejected while less qualified urms get in.
of course, plz dont bring up stupid crap again about them not qualified, they are.</p>
<p>AA gives URMs an unfair advantage. That's all there is to it. Just because someone graduates from a top school doesn't mean that he is particularly bright. If at these schools, everything is done to make failing extremely hard, then even a troll could end up with a degree. Look at relevant data like standardized test scores and GPA relative to the rest of the class. That should tell you how qualified a person is in relation to the rest of the class and how well he performed.</p>
<p>What's fair about giving a tip to one applicant versus the other because of skin color? </p>
<p>The AA admitted applicants ARE underqualified. Black mean scores are 863 on the m/v parts of the SATs, while whites are at 1063. </p>
<p>"A major reason for the SAT racial gap appears to be explained by the fact that black students who take the SAT have not followed the same academic track as white students"</p>
<p>"For admission to the very highest ranked, brand-name schools such as Princeton or MIT, applicants need scores of 750 to be considered for admission. Yet, as we shall see, only a minute percentage of black test takers score at these levels. Thus, if high-ranking colleges and universities were to abandon their policies of race-sensitive admissions, they will be choosing their first-year students from an applicant pool in which there will be practically no blacks.</p>
<p>Let's be more specific about the SAT racial gap among high-scoring applicants. In 2006, 150,643 African Americans took the SAT test. They made up 10.3 percent of all SAT test takers. But only 976 African-American collegebound students scored 700 or above on the math SAT and only 1,117 scored at least 700 on the verbal SAT. Nationally, more than 95,000 students of all races scored 700 or above on the math SAT and nearly 69,000 students scored 700 or above on the verbal SAT. Thus, in this topscoring category of all SAT test takers, blacks made up only 1 percent of the students scoring 700 or higher on the math test and only 1.6 percent of the students scoring 700 or higher on the verbal SAT."</p>
<p>The AA students are NOT equally qualified.</p>
<p>Source: A large black-white scoring gap persists on the SAT. The Journal of Blacks in Higher Education, 53, 72-77. Retrieved from ProQuest database.</p>
<p>Whether or not you will graduate in 4 years and what your GPA will be, at the top universities (where everyone is qualified) becomes quickly a question of what your major is. This study ignored that a black engineering major with a 3.4 who graduated in 5 years probably worked a lot harder than a black communications major who graduated in 4 years with a 3.5.</p>
<p>"AA is more of a tip bw/ 2 similarly qualified applicants"</p>
<p>Come on, man. You know this isn't true. The average URM at Yale has SAT scores of 150 points lower. </p>
<p>The discrepancy is even bigger in med school admissions. The average URM getting into med school has a MCAT score of 27 while the average ORM has a MCAT score of 31. For those of you not well-versed on the MCAT, the admissions formula is GPA * 10 + MCAT. That means each point on the MCAT is equivalent to 0.1 on the GPA scale. A urm with a 30 MCAT and a 3.3 GPA is equivalent to a ORM with a 30 MCAT and a 3.7 GPA. HUGE ADVANTAGE.</p>
<p>The end result? Studies show that doctors produced by Meharry and Howard Medical Schools (the two US allopathic MD schools with the lowest MCAT scores) produce doctors that are disciplined/placed on probation at 10x the rate of the doctors produced by the average medical school.</p>
<p>I do know it is true. Look through chances threads. Find me kids admitted to top tier schools who would have had little to no chance if they were ORM or white. Most of the URM kids had stats that were well within range of their ORM or white counterparts. I do agree though, AA in some places is used heavily (like UMich-not anymore and UVA).</p>
<p>QUOTE:
"The bottom line is that it is unfair to give an advantage to a less able student because of skin color."</p>
<p>can you get any more incompetent. URMS are not LESS ABLE. that's the whole point of this thread- to show morons like you that you have no idea what your talking about.</p>
<p>I agree with u... you'llsee</p>
<p>" 'The bottom line is that it is unfair to give an advantage to a less able student because of skin color.'</p>
<p>can you get any more incompetent. URMS are not LESS ABLE. that's the whole point of this thread- to show morons like you that you have no idea what your talking about."</p>
<p>you'llsee: what's up with your TONE, man? The quote you cited is that person's HONEST opinion that it's UNFAIR. You disagree (so do I). Then you call him a moron. Way to show the power of your persuasive argument.</p>
<p>Why do you insist on being rude to people who honestly disagree with you. You've got to be one of the most unrelentingly boorish people I've seen on this site (even though I agree with you in spirit mostly). You really need to grow up once you get to college and tone it down. Your screaming and ranting does you (and your stance) no favors. Really. I'm done with this thread -- there's gonna be nothing constructive further here...</p>
<p>you'll see,
you're completely contradicting yourself. yet u call others moron?</p>
<p>if urm =/= less able, why do we need AA in the first place to BOOST their chances?</p>
<p>u moron?</p>