<p>"standards for SATs for URMs are lowered. URMs should have to meet the same criterion as all other applicants."</p>
<p>There is NO criterion. You are just pulling stuff out of thin air! Tell me, what is the minimum SAT score for applying to and being accepted to Harvard?????</p>
<p>if their social conditions stopped them from performing at their full ability, however this does not happen very often</p>
<p>"There is NO criterion. You are just pulling stuff out of thin air! Tell me, what is the minimum SAT score for applying to and being accepted to Harvard?????"</p>
<p>what i believe that person was saying is that URMs have gotten into colleges with much lower SAT scores compared to other people admitted.</p>
<p>kollegkid.....so now your trying to say that URM's essays and recs. are also less qualified....please, do yourself a favor and stop typing.</p>
<p>"if their social conditions stopped them from performing at their full ability, however this does not happen very often"</p>
<p>-And just how can that be judged? And how can you say it's ok for colleges to decide that someone's 'social conditions' stopped them from performing well, but can't make the same distinction about race?... Is race now not a part of one's 'social condition'?</p>
<p>KK - AA is about SAT scores. Yes, higher scores will generally equal a better applicant. Add up SAT scores, SAT II scores, GPA, rigor, ECs, essays - why should URMs be given ANY advantage on any criterion because of SKIN COLOR!?</p>
<p>"-And just how can that be judged? And how can you say it's ok for colleges to decide that someone's 'social conditions' stopped them from performing well, but can't make the same distinction about race?... Is race now not a part of one's 'social condition'?"</p>
<p>read my post more carefully...how does race alone cause a student to perform poorly in high school? the AA being practiced right now is just another form of racism, and i do believe that the world has established that racism is unfair</p>
<p>kollegkid.....can you get anymore oblivious. DO YOU REALLY BELIEVE THAT HIGHER SAT SCORES INDICATE BETTER REC'S AND ESSAYS?.....YOU ARE AN IDIOT.</p>
<p>you are the perfect example of someone who maybe scored well on the SAT, but are still stupid.</p>
<p>The UCs gave up on race based admissions policies ten years ago. Black applicants failed to meet the race neutral standards for the past decade. Now, a "holistic" assessment process is in use to give a hand to those with socioeconomic disadvantages. Perhaps the Ivies would be better served by this approach.</p>
<p>No - I am no idiot. I am not stupid, and I am not a moron. You really are behaving badly. </p>
<p>Do you think that URMs are capable or incapable of making the bar of 2250?</p>
<p>What are you doing to provide prep books to URMs?</p>
<p>"KK - AA is about SAT scores."</p>
<p>-No it's not. If you don't learn the facts I'm going to ignore what you're saying.</p>
<p>^ i can barely afford them myself, kollegkid......WHAT ARE YOU DOING?</p>
<p>"how does race alone cause a student to perform poorly in high school?" </p>
<p>-That's up to the colleges to decide. Just like it's up to the colleges to decide if a single-family home has had an impact on an applicants academic achievement, or any other factor.</p>
<p>"the AA being practiced right now is just another form of racism"</p>
<p>-Not really. Show me a college that says it WON'T accept a particular race, and I'll agree. That is racism</p>
<p>"and i do believe that the world has established that racism is unfair"</p>
<p>-Really? the WORLD? Ha... now you're really just talking bs.....</p>
<p>AA is about SAT scores. Blacks just don't score high. </p>
<p>"For admission to the very highest ranked, brand-name schools such as Princeton or MIT, applicants need scores of 750 to be considered for admission. Yet, as we shall see, only a minute percentage of black test takers score at these levels. Thus, if high-ranking colleges and universities were to abandon their policies of race-sensitive admissions, they will be choosing their first-year students from an applicant pool in which there will be practically no blacks.</p>
<p>Let's be more specific about the SAT racial gap among high-scoring applicants. In 2006, 150,643 African Americans took the SAT test. They made up 10.3 percent of all SAT test takers. But only 976 African-American collegebound students scored 700 or above on the math SAT and only 1,117 scored at least 700 on the verbal SAT. Nationally, more than 95,000 students of all races scored 700 or above on the math SAT and nearly 69,000 students scored 700 or above on the verbal SAT. Thus, in this topscoring category of all SAT test takers, blacks made up only 1 percent of the students scoring 700 or higher on the math test and only 1.6 percent of the students scoring 700 or higher on the verbal SAT."</p>
<p>Source: A large black-white scoring gap persists on the SAT. The Journal of Blacks in Higher Education, 53, 72-77. Retrieved from ProQuest database.</p>
<p>Hey- just use them at the library, you'llsee.</p>
<p>
[quote]
-I've said it before. ALL colleges are meritocracies. How? They all decide what is 'meritorious' of admission to their school, thus, all students in their school should be seen as 'meritorious' of being there. There is no one standard of 'merit', so such an argument is inherently flawed.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>You've indeed stated this before, and you were corrected on it. Not by me, but by an admissions head at an extremely selective institution. It amuses me that you bring back an argument that's so arbitrary that there can be no basis for it. Let's not take things and try to sugar coat them all over again, shall we kk19131?</p>
<p>
[quote]
Fairness is relative. There is no universal idea of fairness. I think it unfair to put barriers on how a college can pick its student body. Does that make my idea of 'fairness' better than yours? Certainly not, so we can drop that word right now.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>And again, why do you insist on word play and distortion? Fairness is not relative. It is what it is. It is unfair that students are punished just for being stellar. It is unfair that certain socioeconomically advantaged families reap from the benefits of an admissions policy at the expense of many disadvantaged students. I don't know if you're intentionally choosing not to see these scenarios, or you're trying to mislead everyone via strict definitions.</p>
<p>Furthermore, I don't see why you're so defensible about putting "barriers on how a college can pick its student body." Nobody is forcing themselves on these higher bodies, and nobody ever did. Everyone has the right to voice their opinion and present the facts with the hopes that one day, United States colleges will incorporate 'fairness' into their admissions schemes like the overseas Oxbridge. At least for now, cut it out and face the facts. Top-tier college admissions in the United States is unfair as it stands.</p>
<p>You still have not told me. What is the minimum SAT score required to apply or be accepted by Harvard?</p>
<p>Policies based on race are clearly RACISM!! Duh! Do away with race based policies and you create a race neutral world. Wouldn't that be nice!?</p>
<p>i'm talking bs? ok, let's talk about America only where it HAS been accepted...</p>
<p>"That's up to the colleges to decide. Just like it's up to the colleges to decide if a single-family home has had an impact on an applicants academic achievement, or any other factor."</p>
<p>i see that you are unable to give me anything to back up your claims about race</p>
<p>"Not really. Show me a college that says it WON'T accept a particular race, and I'll agree. That is racism"</p>
<p>-racism is not only when colleges won't accept a particular race. racism is when people are treated differently based on their race. this DOES happen and you have admitted it yourself before. if you do not believe racism is unfair then i really do not know how to talk to you</p>
<p>KK - the minimums for Harvard are clearly compromised by AA policies</p>
<p>"You've indeed stated this before, and you were corrected on it."</p>
<p>I was not corrected. Show me this 'correction'. Prove to me that being admitted to a college does not constitute 'merit' for being there.</p>
<p>"Fairness is not relative. It is what it is."</p>
<p>"At least for now, cut it out and face the facts. Top-tier college admissions in the United States is unfair as it stands."</p>
<p>-This is not a fact. It is your opinion, and always will be such, whether you call it 'fact' or not.</p>
<p>-It IS relative. The VERY fact that I do not agree with you on what constitutes fairness shows that it is indeed relative.</p>