<p>"KK - the minimums for Harvard are clearly compromised by AA policies"</p>
<p>-So what you're saying is that there is NO minimum, correct? Unless there is, you can not say that URMs don't meet it. They cant 'not' meet something that does not exist. Sorry.</p>
<p>so in your mind (kk) it is fair to be racist?</p>
<p>"So what you're saying is that there is NO minimum, correct? Unless there is, you can not say that URMs don't meet it. They cant 'not' meet something that does not exist. Sorry."</p>
<p>many URMs do NOT meet the same standards for admission as other applicants but are still accepted. don't even try to tell me i'm off on this one. two of my close friends applied to princeton, one was black, the other was asian. the asian had higher scores, more impressive ECs (USAMO etc.), and was truly passionate about what he was doing. my black friend was not nearly as impressive but was accepted while my asian friend was rejected</p>
<p>"racism is not only when colleges won't accept a particular race. racism is when people are treated differently based on their race."</p>
<p>Everything is an 'ism'. I'm not going to argue about what is or is not fair, let alone what is or is not some form of 'ism'. Personally I don't think that poorer applicants should benefit over richer ones, but it's not my place to decide- nor should it be. This should be left up to individual schools, not to outsiders.</p>
<p>Since you don't seem to think SAT scores mean much, what about AP scores? Shall we just open the admission gates to applicants with weaker AP and SAT scores because their skin is dark?</p>
<p>"Nationwide the mean AP score for white students was 2.96; for blacks it was 1.96. This means that the average black score is a full letter grade below the average white score. This gap has widened slightly in the past several years.</p>
<p>In 2006, of the 1,046,590 AP exams taken by white students, a qualifying grade of 3 or above was achieved on 62.5 percent of the tests. Blacks received qualifying grades of 3 or above on only 26.7 percent of the AP exams which they took. Thus, whites were more than twice as likely as blacks to receive a qualifying grade. Over the past two years the percentage of all black test takers receiving qualifying grades dropped from 29.2 percent to 26.7 percent.</p>
<p>At the very highest level of AP test scores, the black-white scoring gap is even greater. Some 13.1 percent of white test takers received a score of 5, equivalent to a college grade of A. Only 2.9 percent of black test takers received a score of 5. Blacks, who as we stated earlier took 5.6 percent of all AP tests, made up only 2.6 percent of all students who became eligible for college credit and only 1.3 percent of all students with the highest score of 5."</p>
<p>Black enrollments in advanced placement programs: The news is mixed. The Journal of Blacks in Higher Education, 55, 85-90.</p>
<p>
[quote]
"the AA being practiced right now is just another form of racism"</p>
<p>-Not really. Show me a college that says it WON'T accept a particular race, and I'll agree. That is racism
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</p>
<p>Oh now look what you've done kk19131, you've distorted yet some other opinion. Now I don't necessarily agree with what the original poster stated, but racism does not necessarily entail a complete blockade of an entire race. Racism could result in selective practices at the grossly detrimental expense of certain ethnicities.</p>
<p>"many URMs do NOT meet the same standards for admission as other applicants but are still accepted. don't even try to tell me i'm off on this one."</p>
<p>SHOW ME THIS STANDARD, or be quiet about it.</p>
<p>did you read my post at all?</p>
<p>"but racism does not necessarily entail a complete blockade of an entire race. Racism could result in selective practices at the grossly detrimental expense of certain ethnicities."</p>
<p>Like the system in the UCs huh....? The standards they set created a sharp decline in some races and ethnicites and a sharp incline in others. Is this, then, to you, 'racism'?</p>
<p>"did you read my post at all?"</p>
<p>-Did you read mine? I want to know what the minimum SAT score is for being accepted to Harvard. That's all. Since you claim URMS don't meet this standard, show me WHAT THE STANDARD IS.</p>
<p>KK - the UC policy became race neutral. That isn't a race-based policy. May the best applicant win.</p>
<p>there is no clear standard, what i meant was that they do not measure up to other applicants who were accepted and many who were rejected</p>
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[quote]
I was not corrected. Show me this 'correction'. Prove to me that being admitted to a college does not constitute 'merit' for being there.
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</p>
<p>You were corrected, and either you chose to ignore my posts or you somehow overlooked what I had stated at least 3 times. Re Marilee Jones. She explicitly stated that MIT was not a pure meritocracy. How do you explain that? </p>
<p>I want you to regard what I just said kk19131 instead of ignoring my point this time. Are you saying that Ms. Jones is wrong?</p>
<p>
[quote]
-This is not a fact. It is your opinion, and always will be such, whether you call it 'fact' or not.</p>
<p>-It IS relative. The VERY fact that I do not agree with you on what constitutes fairness shows that it is indeed relative.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>The very fact that you disagree with me shows that you're just wrong. There's nothing wrong with that. You can check in with States' Rights advocates of the early 1850's. I think they would also believe in distorted and equivocal definitions of 'fairness'.</p>
<p>They Do 'Measure Up', PKswnr!!!!!</p>
<p>they do not, i have experience in this (see my other posts)</p>
<p>and of course, i'm not talking about ALL URMs</p>
<p>'there is no clear standard, what i meant was that they do not measure up to other applicants who were accepted and many who were rejected"</p>
<p>-Exactly. There is no standard. And just who are you to judge how people measure up? Since when is it your place to decide who is worthy of admission to a certain school? Are essays and ECs now worthless? Since you can blindly say that UMRS do not 'measure up' you must know all of their applications, right?</p>
<p>^ exactly.</p>
<p>no, i don't know ALL applicants, but i have seen the applications of two of my close friends and one of them was CLEARLY better</p>
<p>you still haven't responded to the "fairness" question. is racism fair? i'm pretty sure that as a country, we have established that discrimination based on race is unfair.</p>
<p>"Re Marilee Jones. She explicitly stated that MIT was not a pure meritocracy. How do you explain that?"</p>
<p>-I'm sorry. Is this the same woman who had to quit her job for being a LIAR????</p>
<p>"Jones resigned her position after the MIT administration learned that she had fabricated her academic degrees from Albany Medical College, Union College and Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute when she first applied for a junior-level administrative position with MIT in 1979."</p>
<p>she lied about something 27 years ago that had NOTHING to do with what we're debating right now</p>
<p>stop trying to distort what others are saying</p>
<p>That's probably because most of those who go to those schools are wealthier...</p>