<p>One would also hope that students adhering to the CTCL concept would do the research and understand that the intense intellectual atmosphere at Reed may be incompatible with a high school performance that includes many Cs (or not, if those Cs are the result of boredom), therefore creating a more self-selecting applicant pool. With Evergreen State College on the same list accepting over 90 percent of its applicants, it becomes impossible to generalize about CTCL schools and who they take or attract.</p>
<p>Just by being included in CTCL, those schools receive many extra applications–a significant percentage form high scoring kids using them as Ivy safeties. In particular, parents with limited opportunities to visit schools are likely to pick a CTCL school over a non-CTCL school. This has made many of them reaches for B students. Holistic statements notwithstanding, it is a rare Admissions Office that does not seize chances to raise its average scores–especially for USNWR purposes.</p>
<p>I wonder how many hours admissions officers at similar schools have spent gnashing their teeth at not having been included in the book? For example, have those who have visited Ursinus and Muhlenberg or Dickinson detected a CTCL-type difference?</p>
<p>Yabeyabe2, I agree with you. Honestly, I do not see much difference btn. schools you have listed that are not included in the CTCL list. </p>
<p>There are also some wonderful small schools that don’t make the cut for the 371(?) Best Colleges by PR. I feel that some of those are the real hidden gems.</p>
<p>Wait, Ursinus is a CTCL.</p>
<p>[Ursinus</a> College | Colleges That Change Lives](<a href=“http://www.ctcl.org/colleges/ursinus]Ursinus”>ursinus – Colleges That Change Lives)</p>
<p>I take the CTCL colleges with a grain of salt. Most of the private LAC’s that I’ve visited over the years have a unique aspect to them, accept B students and truly try to develop each students individuality.</p>
<p>I found out when we were first checking out College Board for satas that a lot of the CTCL were on the difficult side for B students. Two of the Penn schools that we visited in the last couplke days gave us GPA cutoffs. One said that they really don’t consider applicants with a GPA under a 2.8 and they reweight and it generally raises the average GPA. Another scholl told us that if you have above a 3.0 then you “OK” for consideration. My son was also told that they would rather see a lower GPA with AP classes and that some kids load up on easier classes to bring up the GPA.</p>
<p>Now I don’t mean to be suspicious but are colleges going to tell you what they need to to get you to apply. It’d be nice if a student could be honestly told if they have no chance to get into a school.</p>
<p>OK, now I need someone (be great if they were from CT) who have Naviance to see what the lowest accepted GPA is for Franklin and Marshall. We did a drive by and now my son wants to come back for a visit. I think it’s another reach…</p>
<p>On our NJ Naviance, F&M wants at least 3.5–easier if ED. Their reputation for pre-med is that it is a very rigorous program. The school’s reputation in our HS is that it does not emphasize nurturing as much as some others and stresses its premed and pre-law training. They may value CT more than NJ for geographic diversity.</p>
<p>So not impossible, but a reach.</p>
<p>That sounds about correct to me…3.0 or better unweighted GPA in the “tough classes” would get solid consideration coupled with 3 or better on a couple AP tests and an ACT 25 or better and as a parent I would feel a student would have a chance with most of the CTCL or CTCL caliber colleges of course a 3.4 and a 28 ACT is stronger and so on and so on.</p>
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<p>I know a couple of alumni and this is the feeling that I got after speaking with them. BTW, one went onto grad school to get trained in an area of science that she regrets. It is very specific, so I won’t discuss the area she is in on a public forum. She is not earning a lot of money, which is why she has regrets.</p>
<p>The other person seemed to really struggle there and there seems to be a chip on her shoulders. She went into the education field and is now fine. I got a strong feeling that this school was a poor match for this person.</p>
<p>On D’s Naviance, Franklin & Marshall doesn’t become a sure bet until you hit 4.0W and 1300 SATs (CR/M). A really big reach IMO.</p>
<p>College Data Dot Com shows for Fall 2007 that entering Freshmen Class had GPA in range of 3.00-3.24 of 13% of that Freshmen Class. </p>
<p>For Fall 2007, 72% of 341 ED applicants were admitted at F & M. Should you return for another closer look and financial aid is not a concern, you may want to look into this. </p>
<p>Of course you won’t be able to compare aid packages if F & M accepts Warrior Son!</p>
<p>Thanks Slumom. Anyone want to guess what 5 of that 13% admitted at 3.24 or below are athletes, legacies or others with special status?</p>
<p>Hi all…just to let you know why F&M stats are weird…(there is actually another thread around discussing this)…that 72% ED acceptance rate is probably on the low side: if I recall the CDS that I saw, they fill almost 80% of their class ED…Unless your Naviance distinguishes between ED and RD, your GPA #'s are going to be thrown off…</p>
<p>In our small private, we have lots of admittance to F&M both at the bottom of the 3.0 range (which I assume are ED acceptances) and at the top of the 3.8-4.0 range (unweighted) which I happen to know are RD acceptances…</p>
<p>Hope that helps…</p>
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<p>Yes…this is a big problem/worry with judging via Naviance!</p>
<p>I’m assuming that if one has a decent relationship with their guidance/college counseling office, one would be able to sit down and figure out the ED/RD naviance issue for a particular school…</p>
<p>For example, if one is especially interested in F&M, it would DEFINITELY be prudent to find out which data points on their HS Naviance were ED and which were RD…</p>
<p>Same with any other school…</p>
<p>Our Naviance does, not on the scattergram, but on the “schools stats” page. I get the sense that some schools often used as safeties–F&M and Muhlenberg in particular–have tired of that (or of jockeying over aid) and now fill a majority of their classes ED.</p>
<p>Our naviance had F and M’s accepted AVERAGE as 3.3 UW and 1930 SAT’s.</p>
<p>We found that the Naviance averages may be skewed on the high end at some schools because some of the top students use certain schools as safety schools. At some schools it would be helpful to see the average GPA and SAT scores of those who where accepted and actually matriculated vs. those who were accepted and matriculated elsewhere.</p>
<p>I’ve been wondering about this for awhile and this is my second off to college. Except for a very small number of schools where everyone knows unless you are a 4.0 with super ACT/SAT scores you probably aren’t going to even get a glance and maybe the next 10 down the list or so, the vast majority of schools are possibilities for B/B+ students (unweighted) with above average ACT/SAT scores (greater than 21/1500). Would you really not let your kiddo apply to a school they liked simply because you thought they might be “too low”? I don’t know if I could do that. I just don’t think I’m qualified to make a determination. I’m curious about that, as people are debating 3.2 vs. 3.5 or 3.0 vs. 3.3 at one school or another in hundreds of posts. Since our school doesn’t weight, I always just use unweighted so when I talk about a 3.0-3.5 student I mean unweighted. I could understand if app fees were an issue, but so very many of them are free on-line now.</p>
<p>I wouldn’t discourage my S from applying to a school he liked, momofthreeboys, but they can’t be all reaches. It seems that he is headed in that direction, because of his fusiness about “rural”. And maybe “rural” to him and “rural” to me are two different things! Sigh… </p>
<p>It seems as though there are about 4 reaches on the table right now! And I do of course do not want to say “No, don’t apply.” He is my youngest child of four. If you are talking about 3.2 vs. an average GPA of 3.5, then I feel let him apply! </p>
<p>At least he has good SAT scores & will probably do Math I & II in October. And I am hoping he likes HWS on Monday. We have the geographical location going on too-New England, New York or PA & no Catholic schools. And it is true, many applications are free these days, so that is not an issue.</p>