New Energy Engineering programs, not yet accredited, at ABET accredited schools in other programs?

College Majors Engineering Majors
1

S17 is interested in renewable/sustainable energy programs. Engineering is one route he is considering and prefers the mechanical based options.

S17 is picky about geographical locations, culture and climate (prefers rain, snow, wind, mountains, trees, traditional looking campuses and on the liberal welcoming side of things), I am picky about being having an affordable option (will not qualify for FA but cannot afford full pay). Medium to low stats kid (by CC standards). Efforts are focused on PNW, Rockies, Mid Atlantic and New England. We also want a school that has options, ideally on the energy science side of things, as well as environmental science/studies/policy should he change his mind and one that has the option for him to continue playing jazz and ideally theater tech opportunities as well. He does not want a school that is primarily or solely tech focused (we have looked at Michigan Tech, Montana Tech, OIT). Clarkson is out of the price range and has zero music (sadly). RIT could work but is also out of price range and would be a reach academically.

Finding schools that meet all of that is a challenge. The only ABET schools with majors that seem to meet his criteria, my wallet and his stats are:

University of Wyoming, Energy Systems Engineering: Affordable but is very fossil focused, not at all on the renewable side of things. Possibly more conservative than ideal but is likely livable. Solid music and theater programs. Have toured.

Oregon State University: Energy Systems Engineering: On the higher side of where we want to be (OOS) but could be livable. Is a split program with 2 years at the main campus and 2 years at the Cascades campus and that is a drawback. Has a very nice sounding BS in Alternative Energy that could work as a non engineering option and is solid in the music/theater stuff. Plan to tour in fall.

Humboldt State University: Environmental Resources Engineering. This is not mechanical based, it’s civil/environmental and not really what he is looking for. It is affordable (WUE) but not a school I am thrilled with having on the list for a variety of reasons.

There are two additional programs that we have found however they are new programs and not yet ABET accredited. How risky is choosing a new program that has yet to be accredited if it is at a school already accredited in multiple engineering disciplines?

Specifically we are looking at

Alfred University, Renewable Energy Engineering
Current programs are:
Biomaterials Engineering - seeking ABET during our next general review in 2017-2018.
Ceramic Engineering - ABET
Glass Engineering Science- ABET
Mechanical Engineering- ABET
Materials Science & Engineering- ABET
Renewable Energy Engineering - launched in 2013 and has not yet graduated its first class. Once it graduates it first class, we will seek ABET accreditation under general engineering guidelines. In the meantime, the Renewable Energy Engineering program will be operated using the same practices as our accredited engineering programs.

Ohio University, Energy Engineering
Current programs are:

  • Aviation (Flight, Management, Technology)- FAA (not Aerospace Engineering)
    Chemical Engineering - ABET
    Civil Engineering - ABET
    Mechanical Engineering - ABET
    Electrical Engineering - ABET
    Industrial Engineering - ABET
    Energy Engineering - program began admitting students in fall 2014. The program will be eligible for accreditation once students have completed the program.*

In theory it sounds like both would be accredited by or around the time S would graduate but how risky is that proposition? What happens if a school is accredited post graduation but wasn’t while the student was there?

Bottom line is I would love for him to have more options than just Oregon State and U of Wyoming that we both could be happy with. There are a few others that may come on the list in the Environmental Engineering side of things but that is far easier to find. Otterbein is offering something similar to Alfred however as it’s their first engineering program of any kind, that makes me far more nervous.

Input and ideas very welcome!

2

You said he prefers “mechanical based options” as a route to get to his goal, so is there any reason you guys aren’t considering mechanical engineering? I briefly glanced at the curricula in those “energy engineering” type majors and they generally seem to be quite similar to mechanical engineering anyway. You could accomplish essentially the same thing, in my opinion, by doing mechanical engineering and then filling your technical electives with energy-related courses (or just stick to more traditional technical courses that can be applied to the desired industry). That would dramatically open up the field in terms of which schools are options, and as a more traditional engineering discipline, it is going to be a more marketable degree.

3

I was going to give exactly the same answer as above. If you stick to one of the standard engineering majors, you get more flexibility on the other factors.

In the end, most families need to make some compromises. I’m a Mechanical Engineer (from Clarkson, by the way) and researched many engineering programs / scholarships for both kids (one a jazz musician). It helped that they were both “undecided engineering”. That of course kept lots of ABET options on the table.

4

@boneh3ad and @colorado_mom I do appreciate the thoughts even if neither addressed the actual question (pending ABET as risky or not). Certainly a traditional mechanical program, (or possibly environmental) are options although in looking at the curricula the availability of energy focused technical track electives varies widely by school. We have explored those extensively and mechanical is of greater interest, however I don’t think it’s unreasonable to prefer a program that clearly states a focus in the area of interest but realize that is limiting.

That said, I have not found very many schools at all that offers mechanical, as well as an environmental studies/science/policy/sustainability or energy science BS/BA option for an engineering alternative that fits my budget and S17’s stats and geographical preferences. We can’t find all of those programs at one school but I do need the budget and location to work. Temple and UVM are on the list as an option that fits all of those parameters and isn’t track focused but really that’s about it. There are schools that my S will not consider that would work on paper that have been discarded already but beyond that I don’t think we are missing much. But if we are I would love to hear!

By way of example, we’ve looked at the following that would seem to work on paper, but do not.

University of Washington. A reach academically, very competitive in the major and he wants out of Seattle.

Central Washington, Washington State. Absolutely zero interest in the locations.

Montana State does not offer Environmental Science or Studies

University of Montana is not a location of interest. While it could come back into play it doesn’t seem to be any more compelling than the ones on the list at the moment to justify adding it.

Gonzaga, U of Portland, Seattle U. See Jesuit comments. LOL! I actually think he is shortchanging himself here, especially with Gonzaga but he won’t budge.

Colorado State is impacted with mechanical, we weren’t overwhelmed on the environmental side and they don’t have environmental studies or science. And he didn’t like the campus at all.

Portland State is far too commuter, didn’t check on music at all to be honest.

CU- Boulder would be great, out of price range. UVM would be great, probably out of price range and is complicated by the fact he is missing Chemistry and they require both Physics and Chem for freshman admit. He’s taking APES senior year instead of Chem and for him, contemplating directions I think it is the right all. Not impossible to still get into the program at UVM and take Chem first year, but could mean he doesn’t graduate on time. It is on our list though. There are many that would be lovely but out of price range. I need COA to be under 36K with merit and really preferably around our flagship range at 28 or under.

So, beyond the 4 listed above which are likely to be mostly affordable (Oregon State, U of Wyoming, Alfred U, Ohio U), plus Temple and UVM I have struggled to find anything else to add to the list that fits the general requirements/stats and has enough variety in programs to make sense. I am very very open to suggestions but have looked at a lot and run NPC’s on what feels like hundreds. The remainder of his list do not offer engineering at all (LAC’s) or do not offer mechanical or environmental (Western Wa for example).

He is taking a class at Western (WWU) at the end of the month, specifically on International Energy and Environmental Policy and we are hoping that may give him some clearer direction.

5

Well yes, of course it is risky. It is nor accredited and there is nothing to guarantee that it will be accredited in time for your son’s graduation. The fact that the schools have other accredited programs mitigates that risk a little bit since they apparently have experience in achieving accreditation, but it’s still not a guarantee.

That’s true, though I suppose I’d ask what sort of “energy focused” electives you mean here. Energy is such a buzzword that, to be honest, the curricula for the programs you cited above mostly just looked like mechanical engineering with some things like industrial engineering and systems engineering topics thrown in there. In my (admittedly cursory) inspection, it sure seemed to me like you could get nearly the same education from a more traditional mechanical program, especially with properly-tailored electives.

Only you can decide what is and isn’t reasonable. Personally, I would be very wary of engineering programs that have titles that are so oddly specific like that, especially when the title contains a buzzword like energy. I mean, in reality, the traditional engineering disciplines have been dealing with energy since their inception, so I am just not sure what an “energy engineering” degree will actually get you that you can’t get elsewhere, and at the expense of less flexibility.

What are his goals here? It is almost never advisable to get a dual degree anyway. If his goal is to be an engineer designing some of the high-tech components enabling these technologies, then I don’t think something like “environmental studies” or “policy” is going to help him much in that regard. The time would be best spent becoming more technically competent. If his goal is to be in more of a systems engineering role, then that seems to be more of what those “energy engineering” programs are geared toward, but he would likely be able to learn the policy side of things by the time he is able to exert any influence there anyway. Of course, he may not know exactly what role he’d like in the field, in which case I’d argue that taking the more technical route is smarter, because it’s easier for someone with that sort of training to move into a systems engineering role than the reverse.

Also, what about a place like the University of Wyoming. They are very big into wind energy, for example.

6

http://www.abet.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/New-Program-FAQ-10-11.pdf says (emphasis added):

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Agree with #1 and #2 that schools which offer technical electives in the energy topics of interest that he can take while studying a more common engineering major like mechanical should be considered. But this may take more digging in course catalogs than noting the existence of a specific energy related major.

8

@boneh3ad University of Wyoming IS on his list as was mentioned a few times. However, in meeting with them they are actually far less interested/focused on wind, than they are in fossil fuel energy. He spent close to 2 hours with the mechanical engineering department as well as their energy resources group. It is a solid contender on most levels, it would just be very nice to have more options that were actually affordable. It is currently the only true financial safety that offers engineering on his list. OSU is on the high side with known merit, Vermont and Temple are a bit of a crap shoot (possible but no guarantee) and Ohio and Alfred have the ABET issue. I don’t like having only one truly solid option that he likes, but doesn’t love. If that is the best we can find then it is what it is, and at this point it seems so.

He is not looking to dual major. As stated originally he is not sure he wants to go the engineering route, nor is he sure he does not. He is interested in both the designing aspect…as well as the policy side of things. He prefers the smaller schools which then makes the engineering side that much more challenging to find given the financial and geographical constraints but he will have to compromise if he goes that route. We hope for more direction after the class at Western where he should be able to have some signficant dialogue with faculty and explore/better understand his options and types of jobs that each path might lead to. Sadly, WWU does not offer mechanical or environmental engineering. At any rate we are trying to find schools that offer programs of interest both on the engineering side, and the non so that going in undecided or having the ability to change his mind exists. That’s all. Which would seem easier to find than it has been but we do have some significant constraints and to be fair, many of them have been imposed by S himself, not just financial.

@ucbalumnus thank you on the ABET retro info, that is very good info and agreed on the technical electives. Some schools have many, others not so much. Some schools that have many…aren’t in our price range but we are digging through the offerings. The thinking is more that as a major that is directly linked to energy, the chances of getting into those courses as they are requirements versus electives, might be better. That is purely hypothetical though and certainly hasn’t kept us from considering schools that do not have energy specific offerings.

9

I guess the way I see it with these degrees that specifically say energy in them is that they are somewhat of an unknown quantity and you run the risk of it turning into something like biomedical engineering. In that example, biomedical engineering generally has to hit a very broad range of courses to cover the biomedical field and ends up producing graduates that are, in some sense, jacks of all trades, when what companies are generally looking for are engineers who can lend their fairly specific technical expertise to a small number of subsystems of their products. It means biomedical engineers often have to go to graduate school because mechanical and electrical engineers are often more suited to the sorts of jobs that companies need at the BS level.

My feeling is that “energy engineering” runs the risk of putting students in a similar position, or else it runs the risk of putting them on track for roles that aren’t traditionally engineering roles. The programs are so new and so few that there really isn’t a lot of data to go on to try to determine if that is actually the case. This is why I don’t think this is as much of a no-brainer as it seems.

10

@boneh3ad I don’t disagree but it still doesn’t help me add more schools to the list. As mentioned I’ve not found any additional ME programs that fit the budget, geography and have strong programs in the non engineering areas of interest as an alternative path.

Which then causes one to look at non ABET offerings, though clearly that is not ideal. Remove those and we are left with a very very short list.

11

Well I was under the impression that part of the reason you were finding such a limited selection of schools is that you were looking specifically for schools with “energy engineering” and related degree or that had environmental science/policy/etc programs available. I was just trying to say that I don’t think you need to unnecessarily restrict yourself in that fashion. If that isn’t part of the issue then I apologize for misinterpreting the situation.

12

If you do a web search for such things as “wind turbine engineer jobs” or “solar panel design jobs”, you may come up with job listings. Those which specify a particular degree type in the qualifications may say just “engineering”, or may list one or more of the more traditional types of engineering (e.g. mechanical, materials, civil, electrical).

Due to how such things are installed, some jobs may prefer those with Professional Engineer licenses (which ABET accreditation is important for).

13

@boneh3ad no worries, the question posed was about the risk of non abet programs (or pending) and perhaps wasn’t clear.

@10s4life I am well aware of that. It was a question posed based on predicted ABET acquisition, which isn’t possible out of the gate for a new program. Someone has to take to be willing the risk to allow accreditation to occur at all, the question is, how great is that risk and it would seem less so in established overall engineering schools and less so if accreditation for the program seemed likely on the front end of a student’s projected 4 years though not pre-matriculation.

14

I do think it is a risk to consider non-ABET (even if pending) and/or a specialized/uncommon engineering programs. It seems like it would limit job opportunities. With the right combinatin of other factors/costs, maybe it’s worth the risk.

You could try coming at this research in a different way… check into the career placement info at each program/school. If the program has been around a while, you might get some employment stats that indicate industry interest. If the program is newish, even internship/co-op hiring patterns could be helpful.

Per Wyoming, they do have reasonable cost even for OOS. When looking for my kids (high stats, wanted challenge), I had been turned off by their 98% acceptance rate. However in retrospectI probably would have found that the engineering school is more selective.

15

@colorado_mom agreed and we do plan to, and have done so at Wyoming (which has pretty decent stats outside petroleum). All the petroleum majors are flocking to mechanical so it is semi impacted there as well. We were very impressed with the options as presented. Engineering is selective there and not admitted until junior year, pretty similar standards gpa wise as many schools (message was very strong…3.0 for freshman/sophomore years or don’t bother applying really). Their honors program seems ok although we didn’t dive into it. As a mom I was impressed that we received so much time and attention from tenured faculty. One of the more interesting observations was from the ME program admissions director. Masters and undergrad from Wyoming. PhD from Cornell. He said he’d send his kids to Wyoming even if money was no object which I found interesting.

It is a risk to consider the non ABET or more specialized programs, there is no doubt. However I suspect that it is no less risky than the job prospects (perhaps less so) that will be available with an Environmental Studies/Science or Policy degree.

Though not an engineer myself, I am married to one and work at a Forensic Engineering firm on the marketing side of things. We do fill a variety of technical roles with non ABET folks, and not just our Forensic Chemists or Architects. Sometimes it does come down to the person and their experience, as well as their passion. They are obviously not performing as engineers on projects but many have some pretty decent careers.

16

Have you looked at Bradley? They offer an accredited mechanical engineering degree with a concentration in energy engineering. The also have an inter-disciplinary environmental sciences major. They also seem to have multiple offerings for jazz musicians.

17

@InigoMontoya I had never heard of Bradley! Love the school size, and it looks affordable. Not so sure about Peoria (I lived in Chicago for 10 years) but the rest has a ton of potential and I’ll look into it further and show S. Thank you!

18

S and I were pleasantly surprised by Peoria. There’s quite a bit going on there and lots to do even within walking distance of campus. Very pretty riverfront. Having the engineering school endowed by Caterpillar is a plus (Peoria is Caterpillar’s world headquarters). S also liked the engineering capstone project. I like that the core curriculum includes an oral communication requirement. We almost didn’t visit, but once we did S was confident Bradley was his choice.

19

Bradley isn’t cheap, though.

20

@InigoMontoya I’ve been to Peoria many times. Less concerned with the city itself then climate/topography as the kid would prefer evergreens and rain but I definitely think it merits discussion and hits a ton of the right notes on paper. Thank you again.

@boneh3ad it actually comes in less than any OOS engineering options we’ve looked at other than Wyoming or Humboldt. NPC shows a 10k merit award plus a 4K OOS “scholarship” which puts it in the livable ballpark. I have to say they have the nicest net price calculator I’ve ever seen.

Projects out all 4 years, lets you choose a rate of inflation, payment options etc. Very slick!