New England LACs

College Search & Selection
1

Hello everyone,

I have been a forum lurker here since before high school, but I’ve avoided signing up before now for one reason that I’m sure a lot of you aren’t surprised by: I don’t want to be lured into the mindset that Ivy League schools are the only way to go.

That said, I am a high performer and I love to learn. I’m only a 10th grader, so I haven’t taken the SAT/ACT yet, although I have taken the Pre ACT and found it decently easy aside from a few math topics to brush up on… eagerly awaiting that score.

My high school environment is fairly competitive and my mindset has adjusted accordingly; however, I’ve sometimes been unhappy and anxious as a result, and have decided that my college’s atmosphere needs to be challenging, but not cutthroat competitive. Knowing and being able to talk with my teachers is EXTREMELY important to me- most of my anxiety at the beginning of the year departed over time as I developed relationships with them. While I do want to apply to my state flagship (it’s a great school and could be best for financial reasons), I have a feeling that my mind would be happiest in a small-school environment.

All of these observations and more have made me decide that most of my OOS schools should be LACs. I will be traveling to New England this year and want to tour LACs that meet a few conditions:

  1. Good financial aid/grants/scholarships for a middle-class student. If $26k a year is the best I get, I’m sticking with a state school.
  2. A student body that is motivated but reflective. Specifically, my ideal group of students would be happy to sit down over dinner and have a philosophical discussion rather than trying to fit in one more activity for their resumes. They would be relatively unconcerned about cliques but very concerned with maintaining quality friendships. Ideally, social life would not revolve around Greek life.
  3. A safe suburban or rural environment with decent on-campus housing.
  4. In general, professors that have the necessary credentials but also care for their students (tough is okay, downright unemotional is not).
  5. Grade deflation is actually preferable to inflation, as inflation will just feed my inner perfectionist.
  6. A certain amount of diversity, both racial and socioeconomic.
  7. A decent program in one or more of the above: psychology, English, and international relations. (Aka not an all STEM school, although I would actually prefer a school with SOME decent STEM programs to an all humanities school. I wish to attend graduate school and see myself doing interdisciplinary research.)
  8. This won’t be too hard among top New England LACs, but a liberal administration fully accepting of LGBTQ+ students would be preferable.

The list I’ve made so far basically includes all of the top New England LACs. I would like comparisons of the schools listed, but feel free to mention any other schools I neglected to write. The list contains: Williams, Amherst, Wesleyan, Wellesley, Bates, Bowdoin, Colby, Smith, Holy Cross, and Mount Holyoke. I obviously cannot tour all of those in a week and am trying to narrow it down.
Also, if anyone wants to suggest a Boston school that meets the criteria/you think I should check out, ignore the suburban/rural point I made.

I hope I haven’t neglected any rules or etiquette here, but please tell me if I have and I will fix my errors right away.

Thank you so much!!

2

A few questions.

Do you mean you want the cost, including room & board, to be $26K or less? Is that before or after federal loans ($5,500 frosh year, slightly more each year after)? Since the overall cost varies by school, telling us how much scholarship money you want isn’t too helpful — knowing how much your family can pay is.

Have you worked with your parents to run net price calculators (on the school websites) to see what the cost might be? If you are eligible for need based aid, your cost could come down that far. If not, you’d need to look at different schools for merit aid. If the calculators don’t look good, then I’d reconsider visiting — maybe not worth it.

Why New England? There are fine LACs in many other parts of the country (and some that offer more merit aid).

3

Welcome to posting on College Confidential, @isla701 !

The schools you listed seem like good “fits” for you, based on your criteria and self-description.

Other reachy LAC’s you might enjoy include Middlebury, Swarthmore, Haverford, Vassar, and Hamilton. Some of these are not technically in New England, but they are in the northeastern U.S. Middlebury has particular strengths in international relations and English, two of your areas of interest. My spouse is a psychologist who went to Vassar and enjoyed their psych department, which is still well-regarded today.

Slightly safer “match” colleges might include Skidmore and Connecticut College. Brandeis, though listed with the research universities, is relatively small as well.

On the safety school end of the spectrum, Clark is a great small university that offers substantial merit aid. Clark is superb in psychology, one of your interests.

You asked for comparisons of the ones you named. All are great small liberal arts colleges, that definitely will meet the description of professors that you included in your post as well as your other criteria. You can’t go wrong here! One clear distinction, of course, is how you feel about single sex colleges. But I will compare the five my family visited recently.

Williams: the one my son chose and is attending. Yes, philosophical discussions around dinner are big (as are typical kid topics!). The kids there love ideas and learning. If you like the beauty of mountains and do not mind a small town, Williams is a great choice. One of the best aspects is how freshmen get to know one another so well, with a couple of weeks of an adjustment period on campus before classes even start, with a group orientation trip program (Ephventures) and the freshman “entry” system in which just under 40 freshmen live together with 3 or 4 unpaid volunteer Junior Advisors; you have a built-in friend group at the start, and then can branch out and make other friends, too. It is so easy to make friends there! Housing is good, albeit somewhat worn, with 60% of freshmen and most upperclassmen getting singles. Williams is very strong in STEM for a small liberal arts college, especially in math and physics.

Wesleyan: also particularly strong in STEM, a bit larger than many other LAC’s, with an experimental and liberal vibe, and cool interdisciplinary majors like the College of Social Studies, and great connections in theatre, film, and television.

Amherst: part of a five-college consortium, thus combining the benefits of a small college with some of the advantages of a larger university, in a charming town that is a bit more active and less remote than Williamstown.

Bowdoin: great college with tight, friendly community in the nicest and most “happening” town of the five colleges about which I am commenting. And the polar bear is the coolest mascot.

Bates: This college exudes warmth and friendliness. What a special place. Some people do not like the town, but my spouse and son liked it, and there are great opportunities for community service.

My son found these five colleges to be more alike than different. He would have been happy at any of them. He is thrilled with Williams so far.

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@intparent Yes, that’s what I mean. And I do mean before federal loans. You’re right-- I should definitely sit my parents down in front of some of these calculators. There’s a certain research aspect I can’t do myself, although I’m decidedly eager about college admissions in comparison to them at this point in HS. :stuck_out_tongue:

As for the New England question, a relative of mine is currently attending Clark University, so we are looking to go visit him and then go tour colleges around the area. Do you (or any others) have any recommendations for academically rigorous LACs outside of the Northeast? (We are planning a separate NY and PA trip, and I have already toured Davidson because I live in the South.) I am not interested in paying public OOS tuition (unless anyone contradicts what I’ve read and says academically superior publics will offer decent aid to OOS students).

Also, California is too far away, so Claremont Colleges are out.

Thanks so much for the reply :slight_smile:

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@TheGreyKing Thank you so, so much for all of your thoughts :slight_smile: I knew I could get thorough advice here!! It’s great to hear your son is happy at Williams. My relative is thrilled at Clark (he’s a little less into the academic ladder than I am but definitely a brainiac).

I wasn’t sure if Williams was for non-sports people or if it had too much of the cutthroat competitive mentality (has your son noticed either of those?), but seeing as your comments didn’t pertain to either subject, I’m now more excited about touring there.

Forgot to make clear that I am fine with women’s colleges. Out of the schools on the list, MHC was one of my favorites- the acceptance rate is not ridiculous but the GPAs and test scores are high, plus they have strong programs in my interests. Of course you might not know that much about it but just providing further context. Thanks for all the input on coed schools.

And a general question to anyone, not just those who have already posted: which of these schools place the heaviest emphasis on writing?

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Your list is reasonable and has some schools in it that have different vibes so visiting is a good idea. Because of the proximity many have with each other, you could see them in a week with a couple of days with 2 visits. I fully agree that upstate ny, Philly, Ohio (to name a few) have some great schools as well, so think about whether you want to limit yourself to new England. Bryn Mawr sounds like it’d be worth a visit, and they offer merit.

Your list includes schools which do not offer much/any merit, so definitely use the NPC to confirm affordability before investing a lot of time in the options. There may be other schools that meet all your needs, including price, better.

Also, fwiw, stop thinking about colleges for a year. For now, focus on your studies and on being attentive to what excites you and what doesn’t. It’ll be easier to work through what you want if you really understand who you are.

7

In answer to your two Williams-specific questions:

  1. The ambience is more collaborative than cut-throat. People enjoy working together. But the workload is indeed intense.
  2. There certainly are a lot of varsity athletes at Williams, but every freshman entry also will include people who play club sports more casually and people who do not play any sport at all but are into music or art or trivia contests or college council or whatever else. There will be others who share whatever interests you have, and the freshman entry system makes sure you get to know people of all different backgrounds and interests.

———-

In answer to another question you posed:

Writing is big at all these colleges. If you are looking for a college with a super heavy emphasis on writing, consider Hamilton or Kenyon, and if you hate writing, avoid those two!

—————

P.S. If you do not mind a slightly quirkier feel, Bard also will have the intellectualism you crave and is a good place for writers.

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@gardenstategal I am not trying to shy away from doing research here, and I will definitely confirm, but which schools do you know off the top of your head do not offer any merit aid?

I guess I’m unclear on how eligible I am for need-based aid and how much I would get, which is why I should do the calculators. And I’m also unclear on how to research colleges outside of that 100% need met bubble. There are a lot of options even with my criteria/majors, but no idea if they will be affordable or if I should even visit them. (Not your problem, of course, just posting for the sake of it.)

About your last paragraph, I want to say keep it up when it comes to telling 9th/10th graders not to worry- we definitely need that. I suppose I’m just not sure on how to discover myself when I’m very exhausted, spending a lot of time on academics alone and not visiting places to see what a “no” vs. “yes” school looks like. Also, I want to avoid being one of those rising seniors just starting tours when they should already be editing essays. And I want to stay sane as a junior, so I figured getting some tours knocked out would help me have less stressful breaks and be able to focus more on APs and test scores than touring.

Thank you so much for the input :slight_smile:

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“If $26k a year is the best I get, I’m sticking with a state school.”

We live in New England, and one daughter with very excellent stats was interested in a small school. We (or I) ran the NPC on several New England LACs and did not find anything close to $26k. However, your results may differ from ours, and I missed a few schools on your list.

You need to run the Net Price Calculator at each New England LAC that you are considering and see if any of them come into your price range. If none do, then you might want to think about expanding your range, or be happy with your in-state public schools.

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TheGrayKing- I appreciate your prompt answers about Williams and writing. It pays off to talk to someone directly about school atmospheres. Thank you!!

DadTwoGirls- I’m sorry to hear that the NPCs didn’t look too promising for you. You and intparent have convinced me to start bugging my parents about those calculators. Thanks for the realism, though.

If future posters will ignore the financial stuff for now as I run those calculators that would be helpful. I’m willing to let this thread go inactive in the meantime but I’d also love to hear more about the schools themselves.

I will get back to everyone about what the calculator results indicate for myself and my family. I know I keep saying thanks but you are all awesome!!

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I’d run a few calculators before planning any visits.

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Swat doesn’t fit “not cutthroat” desire of OP. Clark and Bates are compelling options based on OP list.

The OP listing, perhaps it in a priority fashion, has academics at #7.

I’d suggest first ascertaining what you and your parents can actually afford with and without debt.

Most of the LACs listed are full-boat $70K retail depending on your EFC; minimal merit otherwise at tier 1. Tier 2 will have some merit options, but difficult to count on.

I think finding your cultural and learning environment is first course of action (do I want big, cold, diverse, intellectual, Professor outreach, sporty), although many can check several boxes, few less will also align with financials.

Ask yourself: will I be happy, will I be successful? Then the hard part is defining happiness and success in your own terms.

Visit, you have lots of time.

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As you progress through high school your grades & standardized test scores will help refine your college search.

Keep an open mind as you are a bit too young to be narrowing choices, in my opinion. This is a time that you should embrace growth.

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I agree with some of the above comments that many of the schools on your list are not very generous with merit aid. Some have a few good merit scholarships for students with high SAT/ACT score so once you have scores, you may have a better idea.

My S is at Brandeis - you may want to check it out. They are very big on social justice and seem to have a strong LGBTQ+ community. Frats are not recognized on campus although some students join off-campus frats. He thinks it is the perfect size to get to know people but still have a wide variety of clubs and activities.

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The NESCAC schools do not have merit but most have good aid. Most of the women’s colleges do have merit. I believe there is a pinned thread on merit. Most ot the CTCL schools have merit, btw.

As for thinking about college and visiting. … you are closer to the beginning of your high school experience than the end. Hopefully, you are growing and maturing. You can read about schools, but the real purpose of a visit is to feel the vibe and imagine yourself there and the place that may appeal now may be very different as you mature. (Put differently, this is like a 6th grader looking at high school.) There are tons of kids who make very different decisions when they go for accepted student days than they would have in the fall of senior year because they have evolved in what they are hoping for themselves. Most LACS want you to interview but they don’t want you doing it until the end of your junior year. (And they are happy to do interviews over the summer, btw.) If you are exhausted, this is not what should be on your plate now!

Try to be present for what’s going on now. High school is its own four years of your life, not simply a long test/prelude to college. Think about what kind of work you like to do, how you like to engage in and out of the classroom, what kind of activities refresh you, what kinds of kids you gravitate to. Keep a journal, however brief. Write about what you want from this year (academically, socially, ecs,) then check in periodically to see how it is going and what has or has not changed and think about how that happened. Note highs. Note lows. (This may help when it comes time to write essays.) Why were you stressed and anxious? What changed?
There are lots of ways to discover who you are and who you want to be in the world that are even better than trying to imagine yourself on a college campus. As a good student, there are literally hundreds of schools where you will get a great education. You need to find options you can afford and that provide the living community you want. Think about how you prioritize your wants in a school too. I can imagine that the type of Lgbtq community could be very important and while all schools are likely to be accepting, that community itself will look very different on different campuses. (And probably better at womens colleges.)

You are smart to be pacing yourself so my advice, if you want to have a lot of this done early, is to get your standardized testing done before junior year. You’ll have time to retest should you need it but you may be set early. If you need subject tests, it won’t be hard to get them done. Run those NPCS and understand financial parameters. If you think NMS would help, prep for the PSAT. If you have opportunities to do activities on a college campus (MUN, for example, is often held at a college ) , do a tour while you are there and pay attention to the environment even if it’s not a school you are considering. If you can figure out what appeals and what doesn’t, it can help you refine your list without getting in a car. And sure, if you are vacationing near schools that might be on your list, no harm in stopping by.

You sound thoughtful – you can use that to your advantage.

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Thank you all, this information really surpassed my expectations :slight_smile:

@gardenstategal I really appreciate everything you’re saying. I think I will wait on that Pre ACT score to come back and see if I can make the jump to testing without months of preparation. Like most students, I’m feeling a bit done with high school :stuck_out_tongue: Not to be a downer but my school’s setup can make it hard for people to do much exploring and still have serious ECs- many of the committed people I know are already set on a sport, marching band, etc. And a lot of the clubs reflect the attitude of the student body “let’s get to college” and are simply resume fillers. It’s never easy to form your own ECs but it is especially hard for me while trying to maintain academics, keep friends (who mostly have it set on sports) and still be a part of my school even if its culture does not mesh too much with my personality.

Do you (or anyone) have any success stories of someone carving out an EC path for themselves outside the conventional trajectory of their school?

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Side note: I got upset last night and messaged CC with the contact form because I picked the wrong username, so hopefully they will tell me if they are able to help rather than just wiping my account clean, but just a warning in case. I will be screen shotting this advice. Thanks!

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I would agree with @gardenstategal that you stay more focused on doing well at your current school and try to enjoy your time in high school. 3 years of “looking ahead” is too much.

@bigfandave - Swat is not cutthroat. In reading the OP list, I would suggest it’s very hard to find a school with more the attributes listed, including grade deflation. It is also one of the most diverse schools in the US, and now has largest endowment per student of any LAC (immaterially more than Amherst and Williams).

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@EyeVeee outside UoC, you’re right. Swat is more like “misery loves company”. Yet, at its size, that’s that even more discouraging. It’s absolutely not collaborative for sake of learning. Please don’t say Swat is just as similarly paced and demanding as other LACs, it’s not, especially since it instituted graduate level Honors and 1/3-1/2 of the student body is enrolled. Having an Engineering major surely doesn’t help… kids don’t enroll in pure engineering programs because of a love for learning…its pre-professional by its very nature. And I absolutely wouldn’t be t commending it to a So in HS…it’s the kind of school that comes to you based on one’s makeup towards end of HS, vs. one a So would actively seek out now. As I initially said…visit. It is a small investment to make now and echoed by others here to get a feel. OV probably not advised yet until Jr. year and she can do a diversity or similar visiting program. Finally, she didn’t want STEM-focused and Swat’s top 4 majors outside Econ are all STEM.

20

Read How To Be a High Svhool Superstar by Cal Newport for thoughts on your EC question.