<p>
</p>
<p>We prefer they live in Boston</p>
<p>
Farming is actually an interesting issue. I just joined a CSA and had the opportunity to meet the farmer. He was grilled by a bunch of med school students and faculty about who worked for him. For most of the picking he hires foreign nationals on special visas. He’d be happy to hire Americans, but his experience has been that no American has been able to put in the hours or the hard work. (I think this is in line with what the Army has found - Americans are out of shape.) They can’t and won’t put in a full day, and most of them quit before the end of the first day. (BTW agricultural workers are often not entitled to overtime pay - but expected to put in the extra hours anyway.) Last summer he hired field hands from Egypt, but the US Government has been very slow with paperwork this year and he doesn’t know if he’ll get them for this year.</p>
<p>
Again I say, they are here ILLEGALLY. They don’t pay federal income tax. They don’t pay state income tax. Most don’t even pay property tax. They pay sales tax, and that’s it. They won’t employ others because they don’t have the legal status to do so. You have yet to answer the question how our nation, with it’s trillion dollar deficit, will continue to thrive or even sustain itself given the growing number of people who are taking from the system while not equitably supporting it. Let me guess…your proposal would be to grant everyone who’s here illegally automatic citizenship with no penalties or repercussions for the crime they committed. (parable: Let’s not prosecute the thief. Also, let’s let him keep everything he’s stolen while we’re at it – he was hungry after all. Oh, and store owner – you have to pay for all the merchandise he took.)</p>
<p>
You are obviously a man of questionable taste.
(I’m teasing, if it wasn’t clear)</p>
<p>
That is an absolute disgrace.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>LOL!, well I thought since you were deporting her parents…</p>
<p>I just find it very hypocritical that those who are lamenting about “crops rotting in Alabama’s fields” are the same ones would criticize those farmers for exploiting the undocumented with low-paying jobs.</p>
<p>If Alabama hadn’t passed that law, the same folks would be saying, “Oh those awful right-wing probably teabagger rich farmers padding their pockets on the backs of the undocumented…they ought to be ashamed of themselves. What do you expect from the Red states.”</p>
<p>:rolleyes:</p>
<p>We’d say that regardless whether or not you passed the law!</p>
<p>No, Mini, you’re correct – your personal anecdote means nothing to me. I live in a border state and have seen firsthand how many illegals are paid under the table here. They don’t have SS cards, and they certainly don’t pay into SS, FICA, etc. Are they hardworking? Yes, most but not all; however, this doesn’t justify the enormous drain on our financial resources.</p>
<p>
No, it’s only mini that I’m deporting. Not his wife or daughters, either.</p>
<p>jc40, I was talking about the children of undocumented workers who you’ve already paid good money for her K-12 education and now that she has excelled and is talented enough to go to college, it’s a complete waste of your money to let that human resource “rot in the field” then it is to educate her so that her contribution becomes a net plus. </p>
<p>I was not talking about her parents. But, since you mentioned it, if you legalized her hard working parents too, you might get some of that tax money back that you’re complaining about.</p>
<p>
[quote]
We’d say that regardless whether or not you passed the law!
[\quote]</p>
<p>And this is why we will always call you intellectually dishonest.</p>
<p>Well, ZM, as a grandchild of immigrants, I’m glad that you’re letting ME stay!</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Blue hoo hoo! (you need to use a front slash on your quotes, not a back slash)</p>
<p>And I was just kidding to mom2collegekids. I not so naive that I don’t know how our food is grown.</p>
<p>^^^
I was not…</p>
<p>But I do appreciate your sense of humor (Blue hoo hoo :)).</p>
<p>Mathmom’s story illustrates one of the many things that is lurking in the background here. It should be a snap for farmers to get the paperwork for those annual workers. That it is not just shows that there are powerful interests who are profiting off the status quo. I wonder (and I am actually wondering, not making a rhetorical point) how many workers would be pleased to be able to come for X months every year if it was a sure and safe thing, and then go home at the end of the time period. I would imagine (and, again, I don’t know) that there would be more than a few and such a program would benefit us and the home country, as well as providing protection and security for workers and employers.</p>
<p>
There is a lot of straw in that field.</p>
<p>The boardwalks of the Jersey Shore are staffed by just such folks from Eastern Europe every summer. No question they are exploited kids, but they seem happy to be away from home learning English.</p>
<p>“Again I say, they are here ILLEGALLY. They don’t pay federal income tax.”</p>
<p>Sorry, but all the undocumented workers I’ve known (and, remember, i was a farmworker regulator) DO pay taxes. It is withheld from their checks, and they never get a refund. They DO pay Social Security and never collect (thanks from my mom), they DO pay Medicare and never collect. </p>
<p>This is not “anecdotal”. I was a regulator. We collected the data. That was part of our job. </p>
<p>“Yes, most but not all; however, this doesn’t justify the enormous drain on our financial resources.”</p>
<p>I’m still waiting for the evidence. What there is, however, is tremendous cost-shifting. The federal budget benefits IMMENSELY from undocumented workers; when there are costs, the state governments pick up the tabs. </p>
<p>“I live in a border state and have seen firsthand how many illegals are paid under the table here.”</p>
<p>So let your nice conservative Red-State governors jail some criminals for a change - those who hire and pay illegals under the table. I bet it’s a crime (unlike undocumented status, which is a civil infraction.) They have the power; let 'em use it. No new laws necessary.</p>
<p>“Let me guess…your proposal would be to grant everyone who’s here illegally automatic citizenship with no penalties or repercussions for the crime they committed.”</p>
<p>Number 1, I don’t have a proposal. Number 2, last time I looked, being here in undocumented status was a civil infraction, not a crime. </p>
<p>“Unfortunately, the criminal punks prey first and foremost on fellow illegal immigrants. In some places, the rate of crime and incarceration of illegal immigrants is very, very high and very, very expensive.”</p>
<p>I will grant the point. But to make a general blanket statement that the cost of crime and incarceration among undocumented immigrants is very, very high just doesn’t hold water.</p>
<p>At any rate, for the most part we are talking about their children. I’d love to see a study of crime among the kids.</p>
<p>
Again, just speaking from my observations, the influx of punks is relatively new and they’re still pretty young so any that have kids hereabouts have very small kids. And fortunately (or not?) many of those kids aren’t being parented by those dads. Yes. I’m making a sexist statement. Most of the punks I’m talking about here happen to be male.</p>
<p>Mini,</p>
<p>can you explain how the workers you are referring to are able to pay taxes. Should not they have SSN to do that? How were they able to obtain it? </p>
<p>I also think that when people talk about “draining the system”, they talk about those who bring their family with them, not single guys you are describing.</p>