<p>The IRS estimates that the US pays billions to undocumented workers on EIC payments. The IRS says they do not have the legal authority to stop.</p>
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<p>Well, not necessarily. There’s always been a lot of return migration back to their home countries. Many are single males who come here to work and send money back to their families; a large fraction of these are here for a few years at a time and won’t necessarily have any reason to stay once they reach retirement age. Many others here with families will decide to return to their home countries to retire because it’s cheaper. (We have friends who are permanent resident aliens, i.e., Green Card holders, who could stay, but who have always planned to retire in their home country due to the lower cost of living, and for retirees who have always been low-wage workers with no pensions and no Social Security that financial call is even easier). Hundreds of thousands if not millions left during the recent recession; they just have less of a safety net here because they’re not eligible for unemployment insurance or other benefits, so if they lose their jobs and work is scarce it’s just too expensive to stay. Many are finding the present unfriendly political climate reason in itself to leave; they had always heard this country was the land of opportunity but it’s not working out that way for them and many are leaving, disillusioned. Then there are the 400,000 or so that ICE deports each year; some are repeat players, but most aren’t. (That figure is a bit inflated by the large number ICE detains at the border on their way out of the country voluntarily; ICE stops them, processes them, and legally deports them, arguably to keep a paper trail but maybe partly to inflate ICE’s detention and deportation statistics), </p>
<p>That’s a lot of people paying into Social Security and Medicare but not receiving benefits, not enough to keep either system solvent very long, but it’s not illegal workers’ fault those programs are in the financial straits they’re in.</p>
<p>ClassicRockerDad,</p>
<p>It is nice that you have a big heart, but the fact remains that there are LOTS of talented people on foreign shores are who are LEGALLY pursuing the path to reside/work/study in the U.S. Why are your giving these illegal queue-jumpers priority?</p>
<p>I am looking at this issue from foreign shores. I am a U.S. citizen who is temporarily residing and working abroad LEGALLY. My U.S. born kids have lived out of the U.S. for the majority of their lives, and whenever we go back to the U.S. for home leave, my kids run into funny cultural faux pas.</p>
<p>Now if my family & I decide to overstay our temporary residency visa and live in this foreign country illegally, do you think this country is going to subsize my kids enrolling in its universities because my kids don’t fit in their home country any more? </p>
<p>This issue about the undocumented kids not speaking their mother-tongue is a red herring. Every year I see new kids enter my kids int’l school, who can’t speak a word of English. By the end of the school year the kids are fluent.</p>
<p>Do you think countries with generous social safety nets, like France & Germany, enroll undocumented kids in schools in their country?</p>
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<p>Apparently, not. Those jobs must really be miserable.</p>
<p>Let’s be clear: people entering the country illegally, or overstaying their visas, or otherwise undocumented are NOT criminals under U.S. law. They have violated sections of Title 8, and are subject to CIVIL (not criminal) penalties.</p>
<p>Those who hire undocumented immigrants in many states, such as Arizona, ARE criminals, subject to criminal penalties. Why doesn’t Governor Brewer go after the CRIMINALS? </p>
<p>At any rate, in my state, in eastern Washington, you’d be hard pressed to find a large group of conservatives who want to deport their settled neighbors. It just is the way it is. They know that their own businesses would tank, their own access to health care would tank, nursing homes would tank, and the entire eastern Washington economy would tank. (And they’re not volunteering their own kids to take the jobs that are currently going begging.)</p>
<p>Is it fair? Oh, life’s unfair. No one is going to convince anyone else on the issue of individual fairness. At some point, people (from all sides) are going to have to park those arguments, and figure out what needs to be done for the good of country. Not going to be easy. Until then, I think educating the kids who are here is good for the country. Good for ME. Good for my mother.</p>
<p>“Apparently, not. Those jobs must really be miserable.”</p>
<p>It’s really, really, REALLY hard work. For 11 years, I saw the work firsthand. Increasingly, U.S. citizens are filling the jobs (just not enough them). The sons (and, occasionally, daughters) of the undocumented immigrants who have settled here semi-permanently.</p>
<p>A good article:</p>
<p><a href=“http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/09/02/AR2010090202673.html[/url]”>http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/09/02/AR2010090202673.html</a></p>
<p>Essentially says that without contributions of undocumented immigrants to Social Security, Social Security runs out of money six years earlier.</p>
<p>Mini, </p>
<p>I ‘get’ that businesses and even families ‘need’ illegals to work for them (washing dishes, cooking meals, cleaning homes, mowing lawns, picking fruit, etc). But that’s why we need a better Guest Worker Program…not an “anything goes” situation where people over-stay visas (like some of the 9/11 hijackers) or sneak across borders.</p>
<p>We need to know who is in this country. </p>
<p>I know that some people here think the rest of us are heartless people who hate illegals and would “turn one in” if we knew one. That is so not true.</p>
<p>After the tornadoes in Alabama last April, my family (all except me speak fluent Spanish) immediately helped illegals get the emergency services, food, water, etc that they needed. Many were afraid to “come out” and get help. Some were literally hiding in the rubble because there were military around, police, federal agents, you name it. They were scared of being “caught”. We literally had to walk thru rubble and broken down homes to find these people so that they wouldn’t starve, dehydrate, or miss getting treatment. My family had to tell them that they would not be “turned in”…no one was interested in using this tragedy to “find” illegals.</p>
<p>We need lots of things. We do need a bigger and better guest worker program. We probably need better border control. We need a higher minimum wage. We need a national drug policy that makes sense. We need a way to recognize and acknowledge (note, I didn’t say a “path to citizenship” about which I haven’t troubled my little head) the large number of settled out and highly productive members of our community who are without documentation (and that this is not new: re, my grandfather - though he had proper documentation, it was just based on a lie), and an acknowledgment that to deport them would be disastrous - not only for them, but for us. (These folks are NOT for the most part “washing dishes, cooking meals, cleaning homes, mowing lawns, picking fruit, etc.” at least in Eastern Washington.) We need something like the Dream Act. We need a better system for deporting convicted felons efficiently. We need everyone to be driving with insurance. I think (but again, I’m not sure) we need to enforce the law against criminals - the citizens who employ and exploit undocumented workers. </p>
<p>We need to remember that the Statue of Liberty says nothing about bringing the wealthy or highly trained to this country.</p>
<p>So you think if I snuck over the border of Mexico for example (assuming they don’t kick me out the very second I get there), their government would use their tax payers’ money to fund MY compulsory education and subsidize MY post-secondary schooling because I have high stats and a desire to learn? Haha! Yeah right! If you send a kid in illegally to any of these countries with high stats and a desire to learn, TOO BAD, SO SAD, go apply legally and come back. But yet when it’s turned around you guys think it’s okay for us to fund their education?</p>
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<p>I did read it, and it came across pretty clearly to me. That said, if I misinterpreted and you don’t think that illegal immigrants have more drive than US kids, and therefore you think they don’t deserve the money (because, logically, then they aren’t a better investment), I apologize. But it seems from the rest of the thread that you do think they are more deserving of our money.</p>
<p>“But yet when it’s turned around you guys think it’s okay for us to fund their education?”</p>
<p>Yup. You got it exactly right. Not particularly because it benefits them. But because it benefits ME.</p>
<p>And my mother.</p>
<p>(And if I were the Mexican government, I’d do whatever I could to keep you. On second thought…)</p>
<p>I thought, and still do think, that this issue is a no brainer. This thread proves it.</p>
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<p>I’m not a lawyer, but I’m not sure that is accurate…
<a href=“http://codes.lp.findlaw.com/uscode/8/12/II/VIII/1325[/url]”>http://codes.lp.findlaw.com/uscode/8/12/II/VIII/1325</a></p>
<p><a href=“a”>quote</a> Improper time or place; avoidance of examination or inspection; misrepresentation and concealment of facts Any alien who (1) enters or attempts to enter the United States at any time or place other than as designated by immigration officers, or (2) eludes examination or inspection by immigration officers, or (3) attempts to enter or obtains entry to the United States by a willfully false or misleading representation or the willful concealment of a material fact, shall, for the first commission of any such offense, be fined under title 18 or imprisoned not more than 6 months, or both, and, for a subsequent commission of any such offense, be fined under title 18, or imprisoned not more than 2 years, or both.
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<p>by my reading, everyone who crosses the border illegally, according to US law, should be fined and/or in jail.</p>
<p>Yes, but they are civil, not criminal offenses. They are neither felonies nor misdemeanors.</p>
<p>(Forging documents, lying to immigration officers, willfully false or misleading representations, etc., etc. can be felonies.)</p>
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<p>Do you also want to share links about how every illegal immigrant that goes to a public school in the US is taking a spot from someone who hasn’t broken the law?</p>
<p>Okay - so here’s the deal. I’ll agree that undocumented immigrants can’t attend college in this country, because their parents committed a crime, if - </p>
<p>all the children of citizens who have committed crimes can’t go either. </p>
<p>If the real concern is rewarding or punishing criminals, let’s be consistent.</p>
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Yes, they do, at least in Germany. K-10 education is mandatory for everyone (including undocumented children) and undocumented young adults with a German high school diploma can enroll in universities in most states (though not all) - for free of course, like everyone else.</p>
<p>Okay - so here’s the deal. I’ll agree that undocumented immigrants can’t attend college in this country, because their parents committed a crime, if - </p>
<p>all the children of citizens who have committed crimes can’t go either. </p>
<h1>If the real concern is rewarding or punishing criminals, let’s be consistent.</h1>
<p>Oh brother… The young citizens who are children of criminals have rights in this country because of their citizenship…they don’t belong elsewhere. They don’t have another country to claim them. You can’t lump them in with children who aren’t legally here. </p>
<p>here’s a difference. The children of criminals can be drafted if there ever was a draft…the illegals won’t be. THAT is one reason why the American children of criminals have rights. Because they could be called upon to sacrifice life or limb for this country.</p>
<p>It’s not that shouldn’t be able to go to school here because their parents are criminals. It’s that they shouldn’t go to school here because THIS IS NOT THE COUNTRY IN WHICH THEY LEGALLY RESIDE.</p>
<p>No one has given me an answer to why we should give illegal queue-jumpers priority over legally queuing immigrants</p>
<p>I did. Twice. (and the kids aren’t illegal queue-jumpers). </p>
<p>I’ll do it again:</p>
<p>Because it’s good FOR ME.</p>
<p>And for my mother.</p>