<p>mini,</p>
<p>By your logic, if my parents raised me in Idaho, but I really want to go to UC Berkeley on in-state status, I should be able to complain to the state of California that it wasn’t my fault that I got dragged to Idaho as a child?</p>
<p>And the kids are illegal and they are queue jumpers. The do not have legal residency status, and they are to trying enroll into a U.S. university without going thru the visa application process that other law-abiding foreign nationals do.</p>
<p>I don’t care whether you think it’s fair. It’s not about individual fairness. I have no interest in your comparisons, or your analogies. And you can complain all you want - it’s a free country, filled with whiners. If you want to join 'em, don’t let me stop you.</p>
<p>Providing education for the children of undocumented folks (whether citizens or not) benefits ME, and benefits my mother. I’ve shown you, in quite some detail, how.</p>
<p>As for the ones in your queue, they haven’t done anything for me lately.</p>
<p>And don’t claim no one has answered your questions when they clearly have. You just happen not to like the answers. Deal with it.</p>
<p>mini, you are the one who refuses to acknowledge what is fair. You’ve stated quite clearly that it is all about YOU– that it benefits you, and benefits your family. If going for spa treatments benefits you too, should that be legislated as an entitlement, the way it is in Germany?</p>
<p>And the legal immigrants patiently waiting in the queue have benefited you by promoting the observance of the rule of law.</p>
<p>As I said, I have absolutely no interest in your ridiculous analogies. Nor in your pompous statements about what you happen to think is fair.</p>
<p>If you want to know what I think about issues like these, you could bother to read it.</p>
<p>@mini,
I did read your post about the undocumented immigrants in eastern Washington and how they contribute to the local economy. I also appreciate your concern about the availability of medical care for your retired mother. But you are the one who is OFF TOPIC. The issue of this thread is not whether to deport or not-deport people. The issue of this thread is scholarships for undocumented kids. </p>
<p>I’m not advocating deporting anyone, so relax. I have met many undocumented workers in the U.S., and I agree that they are contributing to the local economy, but these people I know are not demanding scholarships & in-state tuition rates for their kids by default of them having lived in the country so many years already.</p>
<p>You yourself stated that these undocumented immigrants in Eastern Washington have kids who are now citizens. I am glad they found a path to legal status and can fully partake in, as naturalized citizens, the American Dream as students and then as adults.</p>
<p>I simply question the fairness of handing out scholarships and in-state tuition rates for people who skirted residency law. Now sticking to the scholarship issue, can you not exercise some intellectual honesty and acknowledge a disconnect in how this undocumented group is being treated preferentially for university vs. the group who is trying to do it legally?</p>
<p>
Yes, they are sometimes being treated differently from foreign applicants who are applying from oversea. As should they, in my opinion. Can you acknowledge that the undocumented immigrants have usually contributed much more to the state economy and state budget than most of their peers applying from overseas?</p>
<p>Yes, I whole heartedly “acknowledge that the undocumented immigrants have usually contributed much more to the state economy and state budget than most of their peers applying from overseas.”</p>
<p>And by that logic, will you acknowledge that if I broke into a liquor store and washed the windows while I was there, then I gave myself the opportunity to wash more of that store’s windows than someone who didn’t break in?</p>
<p>
You keep coming up with analogies that just don’t work.</p>
<p>We have so many legal kids that can not have this dream that I feel very little for the illegal ones.</p>
<p>Can you acknowledge that the undocumented immigrants have usually contributed much more to the state economy and state budget than most of their peers applying from overseas?</p>
<p>So what? The int’ls that are applying aren’t getting instate rates nor are they getting gov’t aid. They have to demonstrate that they have all funds (even for personal expenses) before they can get their Visas. They aren’t, and have never been, burdens on this country…especially since most of them are “full-payers”…so they’re bringing big bucks into this country.</p>
<p>Not sure that’s completely accurate, m2ck, since several schools do offer grants and scholarships to internationals. I would assume that the student applying for the visa to study in the US has to show that they have the funds to attend, but these funds may include school sponsored grants/scholarships. According to this, about 20% of internationals get most of their funding from the academic institution, and about 1/3 get at least some. Don’t know if this includes graduate funding or not, which would be a different story [Study</a> in the USA](<a href=“http://www.usjournal.com/en/students/info/finaid.html]Study”>Study in the USA) They aren’t all “full pay”, and back in the Bush era, universities were given some incentives (forget the specifics) to take more international students.</p>
<p>Well, now **this **is interesting: Colleges paying headhunters $2,500 a pop to “deliver” international students. [College</a> group targets incentive payments for international student recruiters - The Washington Post](<a href=“http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/education/college-group-targets-incentive-payments-for-international-student-recruiters/2011/05/31/AGvl5aHH_story.html]College”>http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/education/college-group-targets-incentive-payments-for-international-student-recruiters/2011/05/31/AGvl5aHH_story.html)
</p>
<p>Jym, thank you for posting that. I had absolutely no idea that went on!</p>
<p>Here’s even more about the predatory international placement. It gets ewww-ier the more I read . They get a cut of the SCHOLARSHIP money too???</p>
<p>[China</a> Rush to U.S. Colleges Reveals Predatory Fees for Recruits - Bloomberg](<a href=“Bloomberg - Are you a robot?”>Bloomberg - Are you a robot?) for example:
</p>
<p>mini,
Enabling undocumented students to attend US universities does not benefit you or your mother unless they can find employment. They will be a detriment to you and your mother if they cannot find lawful employment and end up 1) taking clandestine jobs that help depress wages for, or takes away jobs from other Americans; 2) use falsified identification that leads to law enforcement costs; 3) overburden city infrastructure by doubling-up or more on housing; 4) utilize medical emergency services because they do not have insurance, etc.</p>
<p>You and your mother are benefitted only if the students can legally work after obtaining a college degree. Otherwise, it is more beneficial to you if lawful residents take those college seats.</p>
<p>Bay, mini is concerned that if the illegals get deported from her community, then there will not be availability of depressed-wage, undocumented workers in nursing homes to take care of his/retired mother.</p>
<p>Not sure that’s completely accurate, m2ck, since several schools do offer grants and scholarships to internationals.</p>
<p>Jym…that doesn’t disagree with what I wrote. We all know that there are schools (like HYPS) that give THEIR money to int’ls for their education. That doesn’t contradict what I wrote. I wrote that these people aren’t getting gov’t aid, and they have to show that they have all costs covered before given their visas…and they do (even if the money is from Harvard’s endowment). But they can’t come here and become a burden on the US taxpayer.</p>
<p>And…hey…why not pay 2500 a pop to deliver an int’l (which may likely be a full pay). Paying out a one time $2500 isn’t bad when the person will be spending $200k+ at the school.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Actually, there are numerous studies which show that undocumenteds are a net drain on state coffers. (Obviously, one could question the validity of the studies, but K12 education is expensive and at best, the $ “contribution” is unclear.) OTOH, undocumenteds are a net $ plus to the federal coffers (which continue to support mini’s mother). :)</p>
<p>^^^</p>
<p>Off-topic, but having to do with K-12 education… Does anyone know if the state of NY is reimbursed for having to provide free K-12 education to United Nations int’ls who send their kids to the publics there? I realize that many top diplomats may send to privates, but there’s a whole host of lower-ranking people who would use the publics.</p>
<p>If the kids who are picking cherries and paying into SS leave the work force for 4 years to attend college, it will be to mini and his mom’s detriment.</p>