<p>Yes reidm, but does the collective opinion of 16-17 year about university education really carry any weight? All this Revealed Preferences does is tell you what high school students think. It is certainly worth looking at, but it does not tell you about the actual quality of a university...or how that univesity is truly regarded in academic and professional circles. In short, it is a cute rating, but it is completely meaningless and useless. It is tantamount to conducting a survey on the best restaurants by asking 7 and 8 year olds where they like to dine. You would probably get McDonalds, BK and Pizza Hutt! If you told a university professor that Chicago is #27, she/he would probably think you were refering to its football team! LOL</p>
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Yes reidm, but does the collective opinion of 16-17 year about university education really carry any weight?
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<p>An overwhelming number of opinions on the CC about the "best school" Chances, blah, blah are the collective opinions of a bunch of 16-17 year olds. Should they also be considered meaningless and useless?</p>
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An overwhelming number of opinions on the CC about the "best school" Chances, blah, blah are the collective opinions of a bunch of 16-17 year olds. Should they also be considered meaningless and useless?
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<p>Meaningless-- yes, in the sense that the 16-17 year olds really have no idea and are just shooting in the dark. </p>
<p>They're not useless, as their use is to either calm the anxiety of a super-achieving-yet-worried HS student, or to inflate the egos of super-achieving HS students who tell a bad student that they'll never get in anywhere.</p>
<p>This list seems silly to me since I chose #27 over two on that list, one of them #11, and I really feel that any other choice would have been detrimental to me and my education. (Of course, I'm a math and economics major, so...)</p>
<p>Sybbie, the purpose of this forum is not for high school students to come here and rank universities. It is for high school students to come here to meet fellow students, bounce ideas off of each other and seek some advice from those of us who have been there and know a little bit about the process. So yes, when 16 and 17 year olds attempt to rank universities, it is usually based completely on hearsay and personal opinion...not based on facts. Like I said, high school students are no more qualified to rate universities than they are to rate global restaurants or casinos.</p>
<p>I agree. People on this board always debate about which schools are more selective/which schools are better, when in reality, they have no idea. HYPSM, no single school is better, and I wouldn't say any single one is much more selective than the other. They are different universities and yield usually comes down to personal preference, not "which school is stronger".</p>
<p>Quote: "So yes, when 16 and 17 year olds attempt to rank universities, it is usually based completely on hearsay and personal opinion...not based on facts."</p>
<p>Unfortunately, many of the adults on cc (parents & others) are using the same methodology in order to rank universities!</p>
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<p>when 16 and 17 year olds attempt to rank universities, it is usually based completely on hearsay and personal opinion...not based on facts.</p>
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<p>That's true when CC members are ranking twenty or thirty universities, most of which they've never even seen or met graduates of. But the same is not true when an individual student is deciding which of two top schools to attend. Students in that position generally visit both schools at least once, often stay overnight, get a chance to observe the administration in action via the recruitment process, speak to many current students, receive tons of literature about specific programs and faculty at the school, etc. In other words, they are making an educated and well-informed choice as to THOSE TWO schools. Aggregating the decisions made by many students in this position, relating to many different pairs of schools, results in a measure of where bright students with a great deal of information choose to go, quite different from the uninformed guesses of a poster ranking the top 20 universities.</p>
<p>But how do we know that each and every student conducting this survey was aggregately informed of all these factors in deciding on how to rank schools? To be honest, it is flagrantly vivid that these ranking are not exhibiting reputation, and seem to portray which schools students FEEL are the best. I suppose some of these schools' ranks are derived from regional bias. For instance, not everyone in New York knows how awesome Rice is. However, in Houston (where I am from), Rice is viewed as an almost holy place. I also realize how these rankings are an aberration from every other preference ranking I've seen. I always assumed that Harvard was not the best place to go to for undergraduate attention. However, I know absolutely nothing about most of these schools...I only have my preconceived notions.</p>
<p>In short, I agree with Mr. Alexandre.</p>
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<p>I suppose some of these schools' ranks are derived from regional bias.</p>
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<p>If Rice is strongly preferred in one area of the country and strongly disfavored in another, then on balance, its ranking will reflect the overall preferences of the students that IT chose to admit. The ranking is not intended to give students a "right" answer about where to go to school -- just to let them know what other admitted students chose. If you're from Texas and think that Rice is the be-all and end-all, you can still make a rational decision to go to Rice even if you believe that most kids make a different and equally well-informed choice. Likewise, if the fact that Rice is a long way from New York influences a New York admit to go elsewhere, that's a perfectly legitimate reason to choose another school. The fact remains, however, that Rice is losing a student it tried to recruit, and if you believe that student body strength has a lot to do with school quality, then that should be a factor in your decision.</p>
<p>Agreed....somewhat. I suppose you are saying that the rankings evaluate student's preferences who were admitted to these schools, correct? So, to me, this ranking is purely an indication of how ELATED students are at going to these places. But how can they be? This must explain Harvard's spot.</p>
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<p>So, to me, this ranking is purely an indication of how ELATED students are at going to these places.</p>
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<p>No, it's not. If your dream school was Yale, but you ended up choosing between Georgetown and Syracuse, and you're very disappointed about going to Georgetown, then Georgetown gets the exact same boost on the list that it would have if it were far and away your first choice. This ranking doesn't tell you anything about students' feelings; it tells you how they voted with their feet when they chose a school.</p>
<p>So then how are they relevant? There are so many mitigating factors in determining where a students finally goes. There are financial reasons, preconceived notions from family members, etc. Your recent example proves how these rankings should not be taken too seriously because people are choosing with their "feet." You also prove how antiseptic these rankings are and how they, in no way, measure reputation. I could choose Trenton Community College over Harvard and Trenton's rankings would bolster in respect to Harvard simply because i made that choice? Granted, one person would not significantly acclimate these rankings, but you get the message.</p>
<p>Moreover, I would rather look at cross admit numbers for particular schools than view a list that is derived from purely circumstantial pretenses. I am not fighting with you on this, because, quite honestly, I am not sure what you are alluding to/trying to prove. Of course, due to your experience, you obviously know more about this subject than I do. I am purely evaluating the situation from a theoretical standpoint.</p>
<p>"Yes reidm, but does the collective opinion of 16-17 year about university education really carry any weight? All this Revealed Preferences does is tell you what high school students think. It is certainly worth looking at, but it does not tell you about the actual quality of a university...or how that univesity is truly regarded in academic and professional circles. In short, it is a cute rating, but it is completely meaningless and useless. It is tantamount to conducting a survey on the best restaurants by asking 7 and 8 year olds where they like to dine. You would probably get McDonalds, BK and Pizza Hutt! If you told a university professor that Chicago is #27, she/he would probably think you were refering to its football team! LOL"</p>
<p>This ranking is not as superficial as you make it seem Alexander. A survey done by 8 or 9 year olds about the best restaurants in the city would obviously not be very good for determining the best restaurants for a 40 year old man. However, the list done by the toddlers would be PERFECT for other toddlers. In other words, if you were an 8 or 9 year old child, would't you prefer to go by a ranking done by other 8 or 9 year old children? Surely an 8 year old doesnt want to dine in a fancy french restaurant like a 40 year old would.</p>
<p>By the same token, this ranking is based on the decisions of college-bound kids. Therefore, it makes perfect sense for other college-bound kids to use the ranking to make an informed decision. Why would a college-bound kid care about what some professor in Azerbajahn thinks about Stanford or Yale? Why would he care about what old people in academic circles care about certain colleges. The most relevent ranking for a college-bound kid is another ranking based on the decisions of college-bound kids. That's why Harvard, Yale, and Stanford come out on top. They are the most sought after colleges for the brightest, top students. Given a choice between say Stanford and Princeton, most of the top students pick Stanford. Given a choice between Harvard and MIT, most students pick Harvard. That's what the ranking basically measures--the top preferences of the top students.</p>
<p>What you must understand is that a plethora of students make decisions about colleges in a way NOT dealing with preference. There are many students who choose to go to a school that you may not consider as "great" because of financial burdens, word of mouth, and parental advising. There are just too many mitigating factors to sufficiently conduct a ranking like this.</p>
<p>I doubt every single student encounters those factors. Besdies financial aid is pretty much guaranteed at the top colleges. Parental advising is not a trivial factor because I believe the advice of parents is extremely important. Word of mouth is also important.</p>
<p>Financial aid is circumstantial to who is applying. Some need it, others the school decides do not need it as much. Yes, these schools have an abundance of money to spend per student. 70% of the students at Harvard are on fin. aid, so finances certainly DO play a part in making a decision. To be honest, I feel awkward pointing that out. Moreover, I never said that parental advising was not positive. On the contrary, listening to their past knowledge can be very beneficial. However, this knowledge that they are endowing you with could sway your decision. I remember I was set on Dartmouth before my parents and their friends informed me of things that were not akin to my preferences. Don't get me wrong, rankings like these are informative....to a degree.</p>
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Besdies financial aid is pretty much guaranteed at the top colleges.
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<p>while it is true that many of the "top schools" in this ranking offers financial aid and even states that if admitted the school will meet 100% of your demonstrated need, many students still end up giving up their "dream school" because the $$ is not there.</p>
<p>As you already know financial aid is calculated as</p>
<p>Cost of attendance - EFC = demonstrated need.</p>
<p>Everyone's financial situation is different. There are eople who are cash poor and house rich. The financial aid office may state that according to the information you have turned in your parents can afford to write thsi $40,000 + check. </p>
<p>Read back through the threads especially on the financial aid forum and see the number of students turning down schools (including Harvard and Princeton) because they money did not come together or the parents may not have the $24,000 that the school states that they can afford to pay.</p>
<p>ubermensch, U R BRILLIANT!</p>
<p>cant these biotch authors LaTeX...?</p>
<p>"the best restaurants by asking 7 and 8 year olds where they like to dine. You would probably get McDonalds, BK and Pizza Hutt"</p>
<p>LOL</p>