<p>From my first glance at this thread, it looks like you asked for constructive criticism in post #49, and then got defensive in post #58, disregarding the benign nature of the suggestions made to you, and boasting your pride in the system you already have.</p>
<p>This made you seem, in my eyes, closed-minded and argumentative. A mature person can receive criticism without arguing back (especially when this criticism is in the form of suggestions that you specifically asked for). I know you must feel a strong personal tie to the school, and I appreciate your pride and school spirit, but I think hostile reactions like the one in post #58 might intimidate future prospectives and discourage them from providing more suggestions.</p>
<p>I personally am considering applying to UVA, but I would like to know that my application will be handled by (and that all of the professors will be) mature adults.</p>
<p>By posting on this message board, you are providing us with information and offering hands-on Q/A that can teach us a lot more about UVA and its admissions process. However, be careful of the first impressions you make; on this forum, you are representing your entire school.</p>
<p>I think you guys are overreacting to Dean J's post. I don't think she was trying to bash anyone or be overly snippy. I think there's a lot of misinformation on the web especially about college admissions, and Dean J is just trying to dispel certain assumptions.</p>
<p>My D will be applying to UVA (and WUSTL) this fall. I read both sites fairly regularly although I don't post much. I GREATLY appreciate input from Dean J whether I agree with the post or not, defensive or not and feel strongly that input from an adm. officer lends much better credibility to the thread. People seem to get offended easily, but one cannot tell the "tone of voice" on a message board and shoud keep that in mind before making assessments such as "defensive" or "aggressive".
One piece of information that I cannot find that would be very helpful would be separate stats for OOS applicants. I cannot tell if my D would be competitive or not and being unable to find that data it would seem that this would increase the # OOS applicants based on total (in state & OOS) data. Maybe UVA wants it that way, but for us prospects we would like to make decisions on where to spend appication. time and money on good data from schools applicable to our circumstances (within reason)
Thanks for your continued input Dean J</p>
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People seem to get offended easily, but one cannot tell the "tone of voice" on a message board and shoud keep that in mind before making assessments such as "defensive" or "aggressive".
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Thank you for this. We all know it, but sometimes need to be reminded. Globalist was right regarding my intent. As someone who constantly reminds students about the "memory" of the internet, I wouldn't post (or even visit) here if I wasn't in a good mood.</p>
<p>I always fear that students think admission officers are grumpy curmudgeons looking forward to using big, red REJECT stamps on their applications...and that they read my blog and posts with that idea in their heads.</p>
<p>I'm on this message board because I LIKE students. You'll notice that I sometimes prompt you all to tell me what you think. I do this because I enjoy engaging in a good discussion and UVA students seem to enjoy this as well (just see some of the longer threads in this forum as evidence).</p>
<p>Regarding OOS statistics, my colleagues and I revisit the debate about running and releasing them fairly often. </p>
<p>For now, it might be helpful to talk to a guidance counselor about past students who were accepted to UVA. You might be able to get some info about the academic profile that is most successful in our process.</p>
<p>I agree that it's helpful to have more information, but I could see how problems can arise from posting certain stats. I guess the biggest problem is that people live and die by stats. They think high SAT & GPA numbers are the end all be all. Some applicants might think that since their scores are less than the "average", they have no chance at getting into UVa. But from what I can tell, Admissions is such an organic endeavor. Focusing only on scores doesn't take into account the importance of students' essays, recommendations, and extracurricular activities. I know that UVa looks at each applicant holistically. Even Dean J said she and her colleagues don't spend as much time worrying about students' SAT scores as much as people think. Your scores might be lower than the average, but what if you have such an amazing life story...that you've overcome such hardship just to get to the point where you are and with the scores you have? What if you're extraordinary in certain non-classroom activities that could earn you a spot at UVa? Some really amazing applicants might not apply to UVa because they might think they're "not good enough."</p>
<p>What's your point, globalist? Probabilities dominate everyday life. An OOS white kid with a top 10% rank and a 1300 has little shot at UVA. It's a fact. Kids who get hung up on numbers are usually the ones who understand them the least.</p>
<p>Yeah, but again people focus way too much on stats whether they understand them or not. I'm not saying that UVa shouldn't post the information. (Hey, I love stats myself.) I'm saying I understand why UVa might not want to. </p>
<p>I remember a previous post by Dean J highlighting a student who did horribly on his/her SAT, but UVa admitted him/her anyway, and he/she ended up graduating #4 in his/her class at the University. Would this person have applied to UVa if he/she thought his/her scores weren't good enough? Perhaps not. Honestly, I can't answer that, but I think the Admissions Office (and you can correct me if I'm wrong Dean J) wants all good students to feel like they have a shot at getting in, and highlighting certain scores might give some people the false impression they have no shot at all.</p>
<p>It would seem that if a University thinks that the public doesn't know how to use the stats, then they shouldn't be released at all (How absurd that would be). I think that each individual should make their own decisions based on as much data as they reasonably want to use. To not publish data that each of us could use because the holder of the data isn't sure we would use it properly seems overly paternalistic. The cost of applications, time, cost of airplane tix and hotels, time taken out of school/work and such should be made by THE APPLICANT, not the university who thinks that the applicant might misinterpret the data. Certainly one's interpretation of SAT's would be better with at least a range (which you get at every college) rather than no data. It looks like I may be fighting a losing battle for this year, however.</p>
<p>That said, I have talked to our guidance counselor and have an idea of OOS stats, but only an idea, not the same data I can get from other schools.</p>
<p>I totally feel you. Hahaha...look, I like stats myself. Personally, I think it would be interesting/helpful to show the range of scores for the students accepted w/ a caveat indicating that essays, recommendations, and extracurricular activities are also important factors in student admission. I'm just being an apologist that likes to show the other side of the coin.</p>
<p>globalist, the person with low test scores should know that he/she has little chance of getting in. There's nothing wrong with that. The person with low scores who gets in is the exception, not the rule. Ditto for the person who succeeds with low scores. Of course the admissions office wants all students to feel like they can get in - it's good PR. More applications means more money and a lower acceptance rate.</p>
<p>I agree. It is possible that the Univ. wants to keep the # of applications high for those reasons and are concerned that publishing SAT ranges for OOS's may shrink their applicant pool. I also agree that if I don't want to take a shot at a small chance of acceptance and would be better off spending time and $ looking at schools more in the range of my stats then I should be able to make that call.</p>
<p>Exactly. But there's a certain brand of fruitcakery offered up on CC quite frequently that tends to go something along the lines of </p>
<p>Applicant: "I have a 1090 and a 3.3 GPA and a couple EC's...chances at Columbia?"</p>
<p>response: "Yes! Believe in yourself and write passionate essays and you'll get in everywhere you apply!"</p>
<p>Yea, right. Kids need to be realistic. Every school hides data, and frequently they won't even admit that they have it. The rabbit hole is quite deep, like UFO conspiracies.</p>
<p>On a different note, UVa will be even harder to get into in upcoming years. Did you know that there will be an influx of 48,400 more students in Northern Virginia alone by 2010. There's also a growth in population throughout most of the state. That means more competition for the in-state spots.</p>
<p>I wonder though, if UVa has to grow to accomodate in-state students, then it will also have to admit more out-of-state students in order to maintain the 1/3 OOS, 2/3 instate ratio.</p>