I have read all the articles and am still not clear on whether the ratings report is still being written. In 2012 it appears that one team member wrote the “scouting report” but it was shared. Is someone still writing a report? How many team members were involved and what exactly was their involvement? Was the entire team involved?
I don’t see how anyone can have an opinion until there is more information. Harvard is giving the appearance of being open but the whole matter is very vague, so the real details are being kept as an internal matter.
I do think this is related to efforts to eliminate clubs, yes. Finals clubs were the target but logic demands that female clubs also be dealt with, for equality between genders. Like the punishment of the soccer team, the actions against clubs are intended to change the social atmosphere to eliminate sexual harassment and assault.
The current dean of Harvard College has been quite aggressive on these matters. I have mixed feelings about effectiveness and about fairness in some of these efforts.
Part of me is appalled that this kind of behavior still goes on, and part of me–in general, not with regard to this specific case-- wants to tell women to stop portraying themselves as so weak and pathetic. They’re upset, their feelings are hurt, they’re victims on the order of wounded gazelles on the African plain, etc. Yet, they still fall all over boorish frat brothers, football players and various other bad boys. As an older woman, I see them act like silly idiots in front of obnoxious guys and want to slap them for the sake of the cause of women everywhere. Seriously, don’t go to those disgusting frat parties anymore. You already know they’re meat markets. Just say no for Pete’s sake. And don’t waste one moment of time and attention on any male who objectifies females. Refuse any date offers from the Harvard soccer team from now on. Do it. This generation of girls and young women need to stop giving men so much power over their self esteem and just kick their butts in academics, sports, business, tech, and every single arena. Kind of like the US women’s soccer team has been achieving more than the US men’s soccer team for years now. Spend your energies improving yourselves, not trying to reform men.
The first thing I thought when I heard this was that Owen Labrie, the prep school guy who attacked a freshman girl as part of a “senior salute”, was headed to Harvard on a full soccer scholarship. He would have fit right in.
I am going to put on my flame retardant panties and go against the grain here. I think Harvard has over reacted in a big way. How have we gotten to the point where young man commenting on young women in a sexual way is considered quasi criminal?
My reading of the situation does not include any sexual deviance. It does not include any intent to commit crimes. It is just men finding women attractive (or not) and commenting on that. At what point of our existence did we move to it being disgusting and degrading for men to find women attractive (or not)?
Question. Is this how Facebook started? I thought I remember reading that it started as a way for people to rate females. Could be totally wrong but I seem to recall that. Then it morphed into more of a sociable site.
Missing 2 games is neither a punishment nor a deterrent. If these young women feel that they’re victims of sexual harassment, can’t they file Title IX charges against these boys and have them suspended or expelled?
^ Exactly. It’s time we move to serious action–not just complaining about being offended. And if the offense doesn’t rise to the level of criminal behavior, then women need to deal with it in other ways–some of which I outlined above.
That said, guys have been doing this forever. My girls have seen it on their high school teams: the upperclass guys rate the attractiveness of the freshman girls. And PS, many girls really like it if they’re near the top of the boys’ list. So again, IMO women often play into this.
When the administration knows and does nothing, they are complicit. When they act this decisively, it makes their stance clear. Harvard was one of the schools highlighted in the Hunting Ground, so in some ways, this is just the tip of the iceberg. Denying the team the end of the season isn’t going to ruin anyone’s life, and perhaps it shifts the culture ever so slightly to one that is safer for women.
The article did mention that they would forfeit their chance at the League Championship and then any NCAA tournaments. Whether that is sufficient is questionable but I am not sure what else can be done from an athletic standpoint. All they really can do is cancel the season. You cannot blame the incoming freshman next year. they had nothing to do with it.
When they develop a rating system like we’re cattle, write it up, and pass it around to their friends. If it’s acceptable on a college campus, it’s acceptable in the workplace as well. Is that how you want your wife, sisters, and daughters evaluated at their jobs? The men can pass around manuals explaining how to evaluate women’s sexual attractiveness and explaining, in detail, why current employees have the ratings they do?
Honestly this is ridiculous. “Some” women don’t mind this. As a matter of fact, I know some young college girls who actually put it on their bucket list to make it to number one on these types of lists. They aren’t victims they just like being popular. You might not agree with it but its not sexual harassment, it is just plain stupid young college students talking nonsense, but don’t think for a second young girls don’t buy into it. They do and that’s why these lists continue to exist. So women are equally responsible.
Officials punishing offensive speech, in an environment where they have promised free speech, that was not intended to be heard by anyone but those making the speech (in other words the textbook definition of NOT harassment) is a scary thing. And the scary thing is that almost no one even recognizes it. Sure individuals can and should punish their fellow individuals, don’t vote for them for class ( or any) President, etc… But this is frightening to me. Could Berkley or Michigan do the same?
@Maya54, So your male coworkers can create a manual to rate the sexual attractiveness of every woman at your job and openly pass it around to anyone who walks through the door? How is that not creating a hostile work environment?
@austinmshauri Ah. Thanks for the clarification. I thought there was something like that going on there during that time. I guess the culture at Harvard has not changed much.
@TheGFG wants to tell women to stop portraying themselves as so weak and pathetic. They’re upset, their feelings are hurt, they’re victims on the order of wounded gazelles on the African plain, etc
Blame the victim, blame the victim, blame the victim. That’s part of the big problem here. We blame the victim and use that as an impetus to excuse bad behavior. Society has got to stop doing that.
@Proudpatriot It is just men finding women attractive (or not) and commenting on that. At what point of our existence did we move to it being disgusting and degrading for men to find women attractive (or not)?
Not exactly. It wasn’t just like they were saying, hey that girl is pretty and that one is really, really pretty. It was more along the lines of ’ that one likes it up the __, or 'that one gives good
I ask you this @proudpatriot - if someone scrawled on the bathroom wall that your D likes to do it w/ multiple men at the same time, would you say to her - hey honey, take it as a compliment?
Just responding to the question about how “tough” a consequence is it to end the season 2 games early – Harvard was leading its conference-- winner of the conference has an automatic berth in the NCAA D1 tournament. So for soccer players, ending the season and the chance to play in the NCAA tournament has bite.
It is so depressing to read even here, that this is OK, not a problem, free speech, etc. This is NOT guys saying she is pretty, this is graphic disgusting descriptions of young women. Harvard not only has a right to regulate its sports teams, it has an obligation to maintain a proper environment for its students.
@Maya54, So your male coworkers can create a manual to rate the sexual attractiveness of every woman at your job and openly pass it around to anyone who walks through the door? How is that not creating a hostile work environment?
First, my work place does not promise a free speech environment. Unlike all top universities.
But no. If the intent is that no women see it it’s not legally a " hostile work environment". I do a great deal of employment law so very familiar with this issue.
This isn’t about free speech or hostile work environment…this is about young men being pigs which is probably an insult to pigs. We’ve heard an awful lot about locker room talk these past weeks and we as a society must teach our boys what is appropriate and what is degrading, offensive and disgusting. It is becoming much harder in the current political environment.
Cancelling the season and a chance for an NCAA tournament bid is most definitely a punishment. I feel for the decent young men on the team who had nothing to do with this.