<p>I hope I'm not duplicating any earlier, recent postings by citing this article. I thought it apropos in light of the discussion about the Scarsdale decision and the thread regarding college readiness. I hope the link works; it was sent to me by someone. I'm quoting a few excerpts relevant to the above topics:</p>
<p>By DAVID W. OXTOBY
"An entering student at Pomona College last fall submitted the results of 14 Advanced Placement tests, all but one with the top score of 5. In all, 20 members of the entering class each reported the results of 10 or more such exams. Obviously, these are highly talented students who will benefit from the broad range of advanced courses that Pomona offers. But it is far from clear that this proliferation of AP courses — along with the accompanying pressures — truly makes for the best high-school education, or, for that matter, prepares students to get the most out of their college years."</p>
<p>Jeepers, there's a lot of incoherence here.</p>
<p>Why does AP = "corresponding pressures"? My kid has taken a lot of AP classes, but mainly because that's where the good teachers are and that's where the good students are. They have been pressured only insofar as they try to cover a lot of material, and the students are competitive. He hates going slowly and being bored. I generally think the AP curriculums are mediocre, unimaginative, and pedagogically questionable, and his most satisfying courses have been non-AP classes designed by good teachers, but as a practical matter I don't think that "AP" itself has made his experience worse, net, or more pressured. The pressures come from the other kids and, of course, colleges like Pomona (who really can't do much about it without building a lot more dorms).</p>
<p>"The new pressures associated with these courses are distorting both the high-school experience and the nature of the courses being taught." Honestly, I don't have any idea what he means here. Distorting the high school experience? AP classes are generally survey courses that give students a bunch of basic information. I have never believed that they were college-level, except insofar as people seem to accept that the first few years of college are remedial high school for most kids.</p>
<p>"Too many students now enter with advanced courses on their r</p>
<p>My son learned A TON in his AP English class about reading critically and writing analytically. Maybe it was the teacher, but my son hated to miss a minute of this class. His junior year would have been impoverished without AP English and French. On the other hand, these teachers probably could have created equally great courses without the AP format.</p>
<p>Fwiw, I am certain that this part of the message sent by Oxtoby is far from being incoherent:
[quote]
"Too much of the high-school curriculum is turning into a pale imitation of college courses instead of providing the solid foundation that students need to build on in the future, and the new pressures associated with these courses are distorting both the high-school experience and the nature of the courses being taught."
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Read it in tandem with the story about the percentage of students needing remedial classes in BASIC courses, and the point made by Oxtoby starts making a WHOLE lot of sense.</p>
<p>I don't know about a story on how lots of students with double-digit APs need remedial classes in BASIC courses. And I'd appreciate it if you could explain what you think Oxtoby means, because I don't understand it at all.</p>
<p>I wonder whether the combination of high AP scores and the need for remedial work might apply primarily to math.</p>
<p>Quite a few colleges give math placement tests that are based on the content of high school algebra, geometry, and "precalculus" courses. Kids who have taken AP Calculus often haven't seen a lot of the topics from those courses for several years. In some instances, they fail the tests because they are "rusty" on that particular sort of math. My son had this experience at the University of Maryland.</p>
<p>I don't know whether this should be considered an argument against AP or not. </p>
<p>I can't see the same thing happening on an English or foreign language test, though.</p>
<p>"Surely he's not really unhappy with the students he's getting?"</p>
<p>I think he is, JHS. Or at least that's what I hear, from an associate of mine who works in an even more competitive academic environment.</p>
<p>I do see some contradictions in the article:
--Simulates college yet leaves them unprepared for college--
--At one point he argues against specialty subjects, then a paragraph later seems to praise the notion of alternative advanced courses in specialty areas.</p>
<p>I think he is mainly arguing against <em>bypassing</em> the fundamentals in favor of the AP's. This is a school-by-school decision, I've noticed, but is usually more connected to availability of teachers in stepped courses, combined with school policy. In my D's school it is only necessary to take Honors as a prereq to AP's in a couple of subjects. And in some cases it is not necessary even to take the foundational course: you can jump directly to the AP offering in that subject. (All decisions are reviewed by the head of school.) Contrast to some local publics, where you must take every single college-prep level prior to the related AP course.</p>
<p>Also, I don't know that Oxtoby had in mind the results of the study revealing .25 percent of h.s. graduates prepared for college. (Subject of another thread.) He may be of the same conclusion as that study. I took the study to imply a need for remediation, whereas I don't think he means remediation, but superficiality. JMO</p>
<p>[and speaking of critical reading/writing, I think the confused responses punctuate that the article's message is not as clear as it could be.]</p>
<p>JHS, I find no lack in the teaching of critical thinking in the private schools. It's a different story in the urban publics. Teachers there are often capable & eager to teach critical reading, writing, thinking, but they're frankly too busy teaching <em>reading</em>, yes, reading, as well as basic composition writing, to 11th and 12th graders.</p>
<p>The Harvard math placement test, which every single student must take, covers up to AP-Calc. So students who have done AP-Calc or more advanced math are not at a disadvantage. Those who are more advanced than AP-Calc speak individually with math profs to determine what level of freshman math course they should take if they so wish.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Last week, speaking at a National Science Foundation-sponsored conference on advanced high school coursework in science and mathematics, William Lichten, an emeritus physics professor at Yale, said that at many poorer urban high schools, the emphasis on Advanced Placement courses puts “the cart of college-level courses before the horse of college preparation.”</p>
<p>He said that last year, for example, most of Philadelphia’s nonselective high schools did not have a single student who achieved a passing grade on any Advanced Placement exam. </p>
<p>*For such students, he said, college preparation would be a more sensible approach than college imitation. *
[/quote]
</p>
<p>and from the Oxtoby story:</p>
<p>
[quote]
"Too much of the *high-school curriculum is turning into a pale imitation of college courses * instead of providing the solid foundation that students need to build on in the future, and the new pressures associated with these courses are distorting both the high-school experience and the nature of the courses being taught."
<p>For "such students," yes, of course. But just because some students come into high school reading at 6th grade level not all 9th graders should be subjected to a curriculum fit for 6th graders, as, alas, happened to my S. And just because some students are capable of doing AP-level work does not mean that all high schoolers should have to take AP courses. Not all students are alike and there should be classes pitched at their level.
As for the oh so wonderful college classes, let's take a look at the thread on "worst college profs" before throwing brickbats at high school teachers or courses. Profs vary in levels of excellence and courses in levels of difficulty, too! Colleges pride themselves in their range of offerings, knowing students have different interests and abilities. Why should high schools be limited to one size fit all?</p>
<p>"Not all students are alike and there should be classes pitched at their level."</p>
<p>Can't get my own colleagues in my State to understand this. Actually, they do understand, but their PC fear overwhelms their reason in all cases. Buzz words: "self-esteem" (can't let non-advanced students feel they're not being taught with the advanced students; that would be "labeling" and "marginalizing"). Truth is less important than perception, even though it is really quite unprofessional and irresponsible to deceive students or their parents.</p>
<p>Tracking <em>does</em> work, but it needs to be done from a sound basis, with close, updated observation, on a subject by subject, individual by individual basis. When a student is ready to move ahead, he's ready, & accommodations to that end should be immediately available. Any truly competent teacher can do this, but too often even <em>they</em> have their hands tied by administrators not willing to deal with such "complexities" or too afraid of political repercussions.</p>
<p>(Illustration:
As a boomer, our classes were large. Yet when clearly more capable students were present in the classroom, accommodation was made for them. As a 3rd grader I was put in a 4th grade classroom for math, along with several others. Yet my official grade level for all subjects remained 3rd grade. I was just doing 4th grade work in one subject. This happened routinely in our public schools then, without controversy. Students can handle the reality of different abilities much better than parents can, it seems.)</p>
<p>Ah, now I understand. But that doesn't make me feel better about Oxtoby's comments. He is talking about two utterly different things: what elite colleges should be communicating to their applicant population, and what should be done about failing urban high schools, none of whose graduates will be applying to Pomona.</p>
<p>Some background on the Philadelphia program. This is a favorite initiative of outgoing CEO Paul Vallas, who did much the same thing in Chicago with fairly positive results, and will likely be doing the same thing in New Orleans. The basic idea is raising expectations for a student population that has been almost completely abandoned -- both the students' expectations, and the teachers' and administrators' expectations. Also, making certain there is actual content in the classroom. I don't think anyone would expect a lot of 4s and 5s out of those classrooms in the early years, but the point isn't getting those kids a leg up on college, it's getting their teachers to teach and communicating to the students that they are capable of real learning. I am very sympathetic to the project, and tend to respect Vallas' judgment a lot. I would trust Vallas on what to do with failing urban schools much more than Oxtoby.</p>