I think the fact that you only have one shot at it is also important. Back in the day, people did not often re-take the standardized tests. There were not industries built to teach the test. You went in and took the test. The only people I knew who retook the test were those who were actually sick during the test and did not complete sections.
The PSAT that counts for the NMSF only is offered the one time. You can ‘practice’ but it only counts the one time. Real life does not often give second chances. To be named a NMF, you cannot simply have good test scores. Typically you cannot have had more than 1 or 2 C’s. You have to have good feedback from your teachers and principal (or designee). Being a NMS means that you are one of the top 8500 or so academics that year.
Grades are easily inflated. Do overs and cheating are rampant in some schools. The standardized test normalized for that,. The one-shot test is even better.
@Torveaux, that is a key point. Do-overs, mulligans, and extra credit are rampant in the academic world today, in high school and even in college. You can save your grade in a myriad of ways, including by attendance and just turning in all assignments. This is the one academic area where you can’t do that. You perform, or you are out of this particular pool. The OP can be as unimpressed as he wants. He and his subs are welcome to skip the essay and paperwork to complete the process, no one will make them do it. or they can just leave it off their college apps if they think it is worthless.
Actually, I disagree. I think the one-shot thing makes the PSAT an even worse indicator of ability, given the time limits. It raises the SD of your score significantly, and if you happen to have a bad day or get a nosebleed in the middle of the test or something you are screwed. The slightest misstep can cost you so much. Like, I was lucky to get all of the math questions, but I heard that someone who missed 1 was down to 700 (on SAT; I assume PSAT would be worse since there are less questions.) I even know a three time IMO gold medalist who failed to get an 800 on the math section of the SAT…
The value of a one-shot thing only comes into effect when there is sufficient time to counterbalance these chance mishaps. And which tests feature this? The USAMO, USAPHO, USNCO, etc. etc. where you have one chance a year but have many hours during the test to focus on a few difficult problems which actually stretch your understanding and thinking skills.
So… like we said above. You can just skip finishing the NMF process if you happened to meet or beat the needed score in your state. As can your sibs. Then you don’t have to worry about including it on your applications. I don’t really see the point of your thread. You can go spend your time studying for the science and math Olympiads. For what it is worth, my kids are able to multitask, and do both – achieve NMF and also complete in Olympiads and other activities. It isn’t like the NMF is all most NMF students do, nor will just NMF on a college application get a student noticed at a top college. So… really, what is your point? Why don’t you go do what you want to (skip out of the process, as you don’t consider it worthwhile), and let those who want to follow up do what they want to?
I just had to schedule D’s visit to her top NMF school around her Science Olympiad, which involves coming back a day early and taking a late night flight so that she can compete and Captain her team, while also managing to be Valedictorian of her graduating class.
Her goal is to med school and to become a doctor. Shall we inform her future patients now that it’s okay if she messes up their surgery or procedure because she had a bad day, just part of the standard deviation after all.
If one missed question on the math section of the SAT drops you from an 800 to a 700, then please explain those people who received scores between 700 and 800 on the math section? Perhaps you should stop believing everything that you hear or presume.
Wow, it seems like you all are really good at making straw men of my posts.
@intparent I NEVER said anything about wanting to skip out on NMFs. As I’ve clearly stated before, it’s the only thing I’ve succeeded at, and the money is worth a lot to me. My point is that it seems extremely disproportionately weighted, like chancing to do well can give you full rides at many colleges while winning USAMO for example can just get you $500 (maybe + additional scholarships from certain schools, but not full rides). “Extremely” is an understatement here. So I think there ought to be reform. Yes, it would hurt me.
@Skates76 Congratulations, you will worst analogy of the year award. You seem to be equating [any general test of ability] to [a test that can have dire consequences]. Using the same logic in the other direction, should we let new med school students practice on live patients to maximize test results? Clearly, both of these threads of thought are illogical.
And ok, I’m not saying that it’s impossible to get between 700 and 800. Tests vary, and the question you miss may have an impact. But I’m not here to discuss technical details; the principle is that if you overcount something by 1 for some random reason you lose a lot of points, and this can happen to anyone. Is this a fair test of math achievement?
CC urban legend has it that there was a kid a few years back who wrote his NMSF essay along similar lines, and did not progress from NMSF to NMF despite having good grades and a good confirming SAT score.
Hmm. Maybe the unfortunate phrasing about ‘funny schools’ set a bad tone and things devolved form there. But really OP is I think just trying to work through some unease he feels and figure out how he should think about being NMF. It is natural. Since in truth there are many awards that are much more difficult to achieve but that win no money. It gives a sense of cognitive dissonance to try to understand it. You just have to let it go and accept that awards come from many sources, that each set their own standards and prizes, have different sets of participants and things are all over the map. Be happy for anything you get. Be proud and let yourself feel you deserve it. Don’t worry that you set yourself up for teasing for being puffed up about nothing. You don’t need to strut that much to enjoy it. Or else then decide to keep it quiet and don’t share at all if you feel strongly about it. But do take the money and say ‘thank you’ if you go somewhere that gives any, and resist the temptation to denigrate people who want to enjoy their success.
Responding to #13- the reason there aren’t more NMFs is because the number is predetermined by NMSC and then cut scores chosen to end up with that many. No matter how many kids take the test or how much they study to improve their scores, there are always ~15,000.
My youngest 2 are NMFs. It means a lot more to my very youngest than to the other who easily whips through tests and got Presidential Scholar nomination which we had never heard of at the time. I just recently came to understand this better. My youngest never was quite so good at standardized tests and does not enjoy them. He downplayed the importance of NMF and high ACT/SAT scores prior to entering the fray, and refused to practice. But when he actually made the cut and then had a good score on his second ACT his tune changed. He was SO proud to be on the stage with his high-achieving friends at HS when they were handing out awards at the honors ceremony.
He recently shared with us that he has real OCD (for which I am trying to get him to a therapist for treatment, unsuccessfully thus far.) On standardized tests only, but not on essay or work out problem type tests, he often gets caught in some weird mental loop that forces him to go over answers again and again, counting via some strange patterns and this prevents him from finishing no matter how he races through his loops. But on PSAT day and ACT2 he was able to quiet these inner demons and do well, so for him that is huge. I am happy for him. It gave him a big confidence boost. But this example shows how sometimes test scores don’t accurately reflect intelligence or knowledge. Mental flotsam can get in the way.
He didn’t choose a big scholarship school, despite my best efforts to encourage him to consider them, but they do give a 3/4 tuition NMF scholarship freshman year only, for which we are very grateful, since they don’t have much in the way of other scholarship money.
Depending upon how you use your status as an NMF will determine its value. My daughter used it for a “full ride” to a state school. If everything works out as planned, she will graduate college with no debt, go on to medical school, and have money to cover that education without debt. I would say that using the NMF status in that manner is very valuable. Although her attitude is that day one of college she isn’t special other than the scholarship. But if you are an NMF and go on to a full pay university, the status may not have any redeeming value beyond the accomplishment.
KinglyBill, I totally get what you are saying. No, aside from the scholarship money there isn’t really any “value” in being named a NMF. A kid may get some momentary recognition locally, but at most colleges it’s not going to be a big deal once you are actually on campus. It may momentarily add some luster to a resume for an internship or research slot, but once you are a senior in college no one actually cares about your high school achievements. Certainly once you are in the work place or in graduate or professional school, it is going to have zero impact. It’s like getting a 36 on your ACT; it gives you something to talk about at cocktail parties but people are going to care a lot more about your college or grad school performance once you are 2+ years out of high school. It’s great if you can get it and obviously the scholarship money is fantastic, but it doesn’t make you a better person or a better student. College is less about filling in bubble exams and more about thinking deeply and making connections; the best students can make that transition and go on to success regardless of their PSAT score.
If being a NMF is no big deal, why do less than 1% achieve that status? Or put the other way around, since less than 1% each that designation, it is by definition worth recognition. Not everything has to be Nobel Prize level selective to be worth recognition. Yes, being a one shot test means it is flawed in the sense that if someone is ill that day, or makes a foolish mistake they would not make if they took it ten more times, they are penalized. People have also spent 20 years on research that crapped out in the end because of an incorrect premise, but the work was otherwise as brilliant as Nobel winning work. They won’t win either. Life is full of “close but no cigar” when it comes to achievements and recognition, be it in academics or the workplace or other aspects of life. There are inherent flaws in all of it, because human beings are not omnipotent.
But on the whole, with over 2 million students taking the same test, it is extremely fair to say that those who scored in the top 0.7% or so have achieved something significant. A few outliers due to illness, etc. does not obviate the overall result or its meaning. As others have said, your argument that it is “too easy” fails logically since then the scoring curve would not be a normal bell shape, which it is, but instead highly skewed to the right, like a test that simply consisted of the questions like 1+1=x and 7-3=y. There would be people that got one or both wrong, I suppose, but it sure is going to be heavily skewed to perfect, even if you asked 100 questions at that level, and only gave 10 seconds per answer.
Your story about 1 question in error reducing the math score from 800 to 700 is just that, a story. I can assure you it is completely false, no matter which question they got wrong. That is a complete red herring and distraction.
I think the reason this recognition gets a lot of scholarship money sometimes is that it is the only one we have that is national and the same for all. Best intentions notwithstanding, participating in Intel, Siemens, and many similar competitions is well beyond the opportunity and resources for tens of thousands of students, especially low income. This is a more level playing field, although certainly inequalities in preparation exist. Again, nothing is perfect but it is the best we have right now.
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CC urban legend has it that there was a kid a few years back who wrote his NMSF essay along similar lines, and did not progress from NMSF to NMF despite having good grades and a good confirming SAT score.
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That is no legend. It’s the truth. I’m the one who told tht story because I know the student and his mother. This student went to my children’s small private high school. He had a near perfect PSAT, he had a near perfect SAT, a near perfect GPA…but wrote a sarcastic letter about the PSAT and NMSF/F process…and his rejection letter specified tht his essay was the reason for the rejection. This student wasn’t a discipline problem.
Back then, you had to submit your NMSF paperwork to your GC with your essay taped in this specified square. After that rejection, the principal told the GC to read each essay before submitting to NMCorp.
@fallenchemist For most students, it’s going to be a big deal for a short period of time. They may get recognized in the paper or at graduation or some other ceremony at school. They can feel good about the achievement because obviously the number who make the cut is very small. Hopefully it opens some doors. For example, I believe it may have helped me win an undergrad fellowship that funded my expenses beyond room and board (although I was from a low population state so having few applicants from my state probably helped as well since 1 award went to each state), and the prestige of that fellowship helped me win a highly competitive national fellowship that funded my grad school expenses. But the grad school admissions committee wanted to know about my GRE score, college GPA and courses, and research experiences. They couldn’t have cared less about my high school stuff. You aren’t going to be walking around at age 30 saying “You know, I was a National Merit Finalist!” and find that everyone is impressed with you. It becomes less impressive the further you get from your high school graduation date. My impression is that this was what the OP was getting at. Celebrate your success now, yes, but then know college is a clean slate. You have to continue performing well and looking for opportunities that enhance your education.
For students who truly can’t afford college without the scholarship money, it’s obviously life changing. However, since most low income students on average score lower than middle or upper income students on standardized tests, the ones who could most benefit from the money are already at a disadvantage in the competition. We know having parents with higher income and college degrees raises your SAT/ACT scores, as does being in a wealthy school district. So while it is standard in the sense that everyone in the country takes the same test the same time, there are still factors that affect performance which are outside the student’s control. In my state, lower income districts spend several thousand dollars less each year per student than in the wealthy suburbs (guess where most NMSF come from?). Not being a NMF isn’t the kiss of death for scholarships. I ultimately got a scholarship on the basis of my ACT, not my PSAT, and I am eternally grateful it allowed me to graduate without student debt. I do think it has made my adult life easier in terms of buying a house and being able to stay home or work part time while my kids were young.
The OP didn’t define what was meant by “value”. Are we talking monetary value, in which case the answer depends on the school you attend because it could range from $2k to $40+K depending on the scholarship. Or are we talking prestige? In that case, there is some fleeting value in that it may open a few doors but it’s up to you to find those opportunities and then perform in such a way that you continue to have access to opportunities. Once you leave high school, your relationships with professors and employers is going to have a bigger impact on your future. Be responsible and kind and continue to learn so you get good letters of recommendation or so people think about you when an internship or research opportunity arises. Students who are good people and hard workers get on faculty members’ radar and they get more chances to do those things that open more doors in the future (this is my concern with some of the NMF full ride schools, many are large so getting strong letters of rec may be difficult if faculty don’t know who you are). By the same token, act like an entitled snot, fail to show up or complete the tasks assigned to you, act like a grade grubber, and be a horrible team member that no one wants to work with and you can be sure no one is going to support you with letters or suggest you for positions. No one wants to have a jerk working on their team, no matter how smart he/she is.
NMF isn’t the biggest honor around, but it isn’t to be sneezed at either. To me (speaking as a home schooled NMF who is on a full ride NMF scholarship) it is a way to show that you are a solid, well above average student who will likely succeed at college. NMSC does have a screening process to get to that level, and while you don’t need to be WonderMan/Woman to get there, you do need to be academically in the upper echelon and not have any documented big character flaws.
I think that colleges that offer big scholarships for NMFs do it because it’s a way for them to get “pre-screened” strong students. They don’t have to do their own detailed application process for the scholarships because NMSC already has, and they likely know the standards that those students have to meet to get the designation.
I admit that some people, including some NMFs, can make Too big a deal out of it and think they’re the cat’s meow, but that’s probably the exception, not the norm (at least for the NMFs themselves).
If NMF were simply based on the PSATs then I could see where there would be question about its value. How well a student does on the PSATs can be simply a function of how on top of the testing schedule the parents are. So wealthy kids with informed parents have often already taken some sort of prep class or gotten tutoring. Most kids have not even started to think in terms of college admissions tests and take them blind. Those kids will probably do poorly on the PSATS but may do great on the ACTs once they have thought about college-much later often. I believe the final step in the process involves more, on the part of the applicant, which gives it more meaning for those still in the process.
Not exactly sure why you tagged me on that. I certainly don’t think I said or implied that NMF was a big deal past college, and only in college if it means a big scholarship. But that also doesn’t mean that for that brief time of senior year of high school/early freshman year of college it shouldn’t be a highlight and something to be proud of. I am not sure if they still do it, but several years ago Arizona State would introduce all the NMFs attending at halftime of a home football game. A gesture, at least, in reminding people that they are an academic institution. Maybe it was my reference to the Nobel Prize that confused you. That was pretty clearly meant to show that they are NOT comparable in the least. I have a D that was a NMF and has gone on to achieve any number of academic and other honors, so believe me I know that one doesn’t go around at 30 and say they were an NMF. Or even at 20, except the two times a year she would pick up the relatively small but still useful scholarship it brought her on top of her non-NMF full scholarship at her school. And having gone to grad school myself and her now being in grad school at Stanford, I am equally aware of what they value. I am not sure you could have more completely mischaracterized my post.
I’ll also have to disagree with you about the OP’s intentions. I think it is clear from all of his posts that he is questioning whether being a NMF should ever be considered an honor or a worthwhile achievement, not just that it has little bragging value after entering college and later in life. He went out of his way to make it sound like something so simple to achieve that any pride in being so named is misplaced. That is what my post demonstrated, pretty clearly I think, as a poor way to judge the award.
I tagged you because I was specifically addressing your points RE: percentage of students recognized and it being a standard measure, when we know these exams have built-in bias. I think for kids like the OP and, honestly my kid, achieving a high test score comes so easily to them, it’s difficult to put it into perspective. Having worked for a national test prep company, I see my kid naturally do what parents paid upwards of $5000 for me to train their kids to do. I’ve never had to prep my kids for any exam other than to tell them to understand the directions beforehand and to answer the actual essay prompt. I could prep the crap out of low income kid and bring his/her SAT score up 200 points just by explaining the rules of the game.
For the OP and his siblings, my guess is that yes, it is “so simple” and it doesn’t measure the full depth of him as a scholar so the value is extrinsic, not intrinsic. I totally get that. My kid didn’t even remember she was still in the running to be a finalist or that letters were coming out this week. She has no interest in any of the schools that give full rides, so she’s looking at a couple thousand in scholarships at best. She doesn’t see it as nothing, but it’s also not really on her radar right now. She’s in a really strong class and knows that on any given day about 5 other people could have scored high enough to match her PSAT or ACT scores. It’s one test on on day. It’s a great position to be in but the value depends on what you make of it – is her score less valuable if she only gets $2500 vs a full ride? Or is her score more valuable if it’s higher than someone else’s? At the end of the day it all depends on your goals and what you intend to do with your score.
Allow me to reiterate my main point. I’m not saying that being an NMF says nothing about a student. The average academic level of the American high schooler is, unfortunately, rather low, and this does signify that the student is well above that average. However, it still is not a good measure imo, and the rewards are blown way out of proportion. Sure, we can continue giving them full ride scholarships to plenty of colleges, but then we should be doing the same for other awards.