Aside from some funny colleges giving scholarship money for it, does anybody actually think that NMF is a worthwhile achievement at all? My two brothers were both NMFs in their day, but they said that they “don’t give a darn about it”. OK, my brothers are quite strange people but what do other people think?
“funny colleges” ??? What funny colleges?? I know of none.
If you and your brothers don’t care about being NMF, then fine. Your choice. Many people do value it, not only for the scholarships, but as a personal achievement.
Is this question real?
Of course this question is real. I guess I should have phrased it another way though. My real question is, aside, from the money, what do people see as valuable in being named an NMF? I agree with you that many people do value it, I’m just wondering why.
Both of my DDs have been NMF. It has given them recognition for many years of hard work. If you are a great athlete, you get recognized in many forums - newspaper, school website, college recruiters. If you are a NMF you get some of that recognition. It has also given my DDs financial access to schools that they would not have had otherwise. There are many kids and families out there that cannot afford anything private or out of state or even in state. This gives them an opportunity for success. Also, you can be a great success graduating from one of these “funny” schools because they want you and will give you many opportunities to promote yourself and the school.
If your family does not see the value of this, don’t participate and take somebody’s spot that would.
GTAustin hit it right on the head, a lot of athletes get wide recognition for their accomplishments as well as scholarship money, NMF and other similar awards give recognition to academic achievers in a similar fashion, reward them for their hard work, and unless you don’t care about the cost of a college education or your family has a swimming pool full of disposable income, then the NMF scholarships to those “funny schools”, many of which are top 200 or better ranked in a country with several thousand colleges are pretty important.
At the least they give a rising senior a very high quality safety school, at best, you get a high quality UG education for free or at a very steep discount. Thanks to NMF status, my D has a chance to finish her UG education without taking any student loans or drawing down on her parents’ savings and incomes. I’d say that, along with the recognition she gets from it, is a pretty big thing.
Yeah, we understand that the money is important, which is why we participate in it. But we just really don’t get all the recognition and jive that goes around it. It tends to make some normally decent people all snotty about it. I mean, you take a crappy test and you do ok; is that really something to celebrate about? Like you can’t seriously say that this is a good measure of academic achievement, lol.
I’m a likely NMF this year (I haven’t gotten a rejection letter yet…).
I am choosing not to go to any schools that offer large scholarships, which was difficult especially as my family does need a significant amount of financial aid. But that option - to have college paid for completely - was always there, and that was a fantastic cushion to have. As for what it has given me personally, I have received some recognition within my school community, but more importantly (to me) my school has gotten recognition.
The application to move from NMSF to NMF was not difficult at all, and I’d already written an essay that worked. It’s really minimal time put in for something that only helps.
As for the negatives - I can only think of one, and that would be the constant deluge of mail.
@KinglyBill any single measure of academic merit is flawed… Intel, Seimens- sure there are some great kids who worked their butts off and did great research, there are others who got lucky or had immense support to get it; GPA/val/sal designations-- just read through all the posts about the fairness of weightings and rankings and course difficulty; SAT/ACT scores-- influenced by access to programs designed to raise scores- benefits the affluent. NMF status is just one more measure, flawed- somewhat, but no more so than any other single measure. Some kids work hard to score well and earn this status- they deserve it. For many it will open doors an allow them access to universities they may have not been able to afford otherwise. For others, its just a line on the already long resume that won’t add significantly. Celebrating the success of others in no way diminishes your own accomplishments, however discrediting others’ accomplishments may demonstrate a side of a person that is not so flattering.
Well, you certainly can’t say that grades are a good measure of academic achievement, as they tend to be extremely biased and subjective; grades and standardized tests are about all that exist as far as academic achievement scales, and it’s clear which is more accurate.
And as far as looking for reasons beyond money to call NMF a worthwhile achievement… why the heck do you do anything in high school beyond the minimum requirement for anything but money? I think you should stop looking for deeper meanings and recognize that future money is the only reason to try in HS and is therefore the one and only gauge of any honor’s value.
@oneundecided I disagree; I think standardized testing is one of the worst possible measures of academic achievement. The difficulty level of the questions is so low it’s really a question of how little do you make stupid mistakes in 30 min, not how well have you learned or studied or researched or understand or think. In general I don’t think you can even compare it to Intel Finals/USAMO qual/IXO qual/etc. And the scholarships a large number of schools give for it are disproportionately high…
@sirbedevere: There’s plenty you can do in high school besides get grades and take standardized crap. Intel/USAMO/USACO/USAPHO/internships/independent study etc. etc. can be way more meaningful and get you way further. I was just wondering why people think NMF can compare to these things.
Most NMF kids aren’t standardized test takers and nothing else. Just to move from NMSF to finalist you have to have the grades to back it up. There are plenty of designations and awards for academics, agree on that, and plenty of very talented people who excel in areas other than typical academics, more arts oriented for example. The fact that NMF is only one, and as noted before, equally flawed measurement of academic success does not diminish it as a really nice award to win and be proud of.
Your first post essentially dripped with a negative agenda and dismissive wording. Let’s not try to pretend now that you intended this as anything more than a chance to rant against something you seem to dislike.
Of course I dislike it, and I’m not trying to hide it. But this isn’t just a chance for me to rant; I want others to rant back at me why they think I’m wrong, since most people seem to. So far the only response I’ve heard is that
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Money for colleges. - Totally legit, this is why I do it
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Somewhat legitimate measure of academic merit. - I don’t agree as I explained previously.
Oh, so uh - “holistic” admissions are a more legit means of determining academic merit?
:))
Sorry, but I come from a family of people who are generally kick-a** at standardized testing. People make a lot of excuses about why they aren’t good testers, but I think testing DOES show something. It shows the ability to rapidly draw on what you have learned under pressure and get the right answers. I think people who are good at both sides (quant and verbal) are particularly impressive. Colleges think so, too, and reward that in admissions. A lot more people would like to be NMF than actually achieve it – if the level of difficulty is so low, then why aren’t more people NMFs?
@KinglyBill " Intel/USAMO/USACO/USAPHO/internships/independent study etc. etc." Wow, you really are a fan of unnecessary educational pursuits… I guess some people are born to be students. Internships in high school? Independent study??? And what on earth are those acronyms? Goodness me, you have surpassed the realm of “good student” and are just trying far too hard.
It’s worth pointing out that NM is indeed one snapshot of a single test, taken a single day. As others have said, you do need grades and a school endorsement to move to Finalist, but it’s mostly reliant on the PSAT score.
That said, here is my question: why spend time deriding something that at least some others have worked very hard to achieve? Different high schoolers put their time into different pursuits. If they happen to be good test-takers, then NM recognizes them for it. Colleges like it because it’s a decently standardized measure. Most CCers don’t come on here to “rant” about the various scholarships given for arts, research, volunteerism, etc. so why spend your time needling this one aspect of the process that may mean the world to other students?
USAMO/CO/PHO-- all determine eligibility through testing… in only one domain. One could argue that the PSAT measures student achievement in multiple areas and thus selects well-rounded students where as the others you mentioned favor students who have great depth of knowledge but may lack in breadth. Internships, independent study, Seimens/Intel projects-- great opportunities, amazing achievements-- but not accessible to all (these favor students living in metropolitan areas, near universities, and with resources to help those things happen.) These are all great achievements and a student earning anyone should be congratulated. As I always have told my kids-- don’t play the ugly game of my achievement is better than yours.
What is wrong with you guys? Why is everyone making it so personal against me as if I did well in other things but failed on PSAT and am bitter about it? I wish it were that case, but the truth is that standardized testing is basically the only thing I did well on. With basically no studying I got over 2300 on both PSAT and SAT (PSAT normalized of course) and I barely tried. But I do try on other things like F=ma/USACO/USAMO but my scores are horrendous. I didn’t even make Intel or Siemens semis…
Also, @oneundecided Yes, of course they only test in one domain, so they can actually test if you know something. But also interesting to note is the fact that the same people who do well in USAMO also end up doing well in USACO/USAPHO/NACLO and people who do well on USNCO/USABO also do well on Intel/Siemens…coincidence?
Anyways, I see no legitimate reasons so far to change my mind. PSAT measures students’ basic literacy on a 6th grade level…mistakes are made due to human error since you have so many questions and not that much time.
So in conclusion I’m really not playing “the ugly game of my achievement is better than yours”, because 1) I have no achievements (other than PSAT/SAT) 2) some achievements are actually better than others.
I mean, all of my friends who did well on olympiads/research got NMF but they don’t treat it as a big deal…
The SAT/PSAT is more of a yardstick* of academic ability, not achievement. GPA is a better yardstick of academic achievement. The most academically able person in the world can still achieve very little if s/he’s lazy.
*Note that I used the word “yardstick”, not “micrometer”…
NMF has significant “worth” even at schools that don’t give large awards explicitly for NMFs. The distinction may improve a candidate’s competitiveness for other large scholarships.
Really this is little more than a pointless rant. I always love the ‘I barely tried’ and look what score I received tactic, not a very subtle form of trying to diminish the value of an achievement. Ok, we get it, everyone you know and who is in your family scores spear high on standardized tests, but for people in schools and families where not everyone scores in the top one percent of everything it is a pretty nice achievement.
BTW, the likely worth of NMF to my D and our family is in excess of $150,000 easily when one adds up the scholarship and the interest on loans she might have otherwise taken. So there, to us that and a bit of recognition by her peers is what it is worth to us. To you it is clearly worthless, an opinion you are more than entitled to hold.