<p>My D has applied to six schools, 3 public, 3 private. In her original NMSF packet, she named Princeton as her 1st choice school. Even if she is accepted, they give no merit money. On the other hand, the school that is the most realistic choice financially (Penn State), gives only five National Merit scholarships ranging from $750-$2500 (every year for four years). There are 19 other NMSF in her school and most will likely apply to Penn State. They give a one-time "$1,000 recognition award" to all other NMF accepted. The information on the NM website is very confusing - I can't seem to tell the difference between a "finalist" and a "scholar". Cornell is her 2nd choice, but they're the same as Princeton, no merit aid. UDel, UMich and Carnegie Mellon are only in the running because in her words "I want a good engineering school with a great choir". In order to get the maximum benefit, should she switch her first choice school? If so, does that hurt her chance of acceptance at Princeton? (just in case the tuition fairy comes and brings us bags of money and she were to get accepted)</p>
<p>I was in a similar situation myself as a senior -- Ohio State offered gobs of NMF money and MIT offered none. I chose Ohio State as my first choice on the form; so far as I know, MIT was never even aware of this fact.</p>
<p>A couple of things - it does not make any sense to indicate a first choice of a school that does not participate in the NM program. I don't even know if the college board mails the lists to non-participating schools. Princeton will not change their decision based on this since they choose not to participate in the program. </p>
<p>Next, you do not have to make a choice at all until after the decisions come out. The exception to this are schools that have a deadline to be considered for NM scholarships. (Some schools state that you have to name their school as a first choice by a specific date to considered for an award from that school.) However, even if you choose a school with an early date, if you decide to go somewhere else, you can change your choice after acceptances come out and when you decide where you want to attend. If you are applying to more than one school that has a firm deadline for indicating that they are a first choice, pick the school that you most want to attend.</p>
<p>As far as the difference between a NM Finalist and NM Scholar, everyone who meets the NM finalists criteria is named as a Finalist - approx. 15,000 students. However, only about half of those students will get any scholarship money. Most of those who do receive money from sponsoring schools or get corporate awards. There is a final group of 2500 or so Finalists who are name National Merit Scholars by NM itself. The Scholars are awarded $2500 to be used at the school of their choice, regardless if the school participates in the NM program or not. These awards are only for one year. Hope this helps.</p>
<p>Thanks, Shennie. You seem very knowledgeable and could help me clarify a few things. If she decides on Penn State and lists them as first choice, she would likely get a one-time scholarship of $1,000 (or less likely, $750-$2000 per year if she's one of the top 5). But if she leaves Princeton (a non-sponsor school) as first choice, she takes the chance of receiving either nothing or $2,500 as a scholar, if she's one of the top 2500. If I understand correctly, the website states you can NOT receive both a scholar award and a school-sponsored award, right?</p>
<p>Although I am not sure whether you can receive the scholar award AND the Penn State award, I am pretty sure that it would NOT be helpful to keep Princeton as her first choice. I believe that the NM awards of $2500 are handed out first, followed by corporate and school awards.</p>
<p>When my son was in the running, Stanford (which does not give NM awards) was his first choice, and Case Western (which does) was his second. We called up the NM people and asked their advice. They said it would be best to list Case Western as first choice. So that is what he did. As it turned out, my son received one of the $2500 awards and used it at Stanford. However, I have never heard of any way it would be an advantage to list a school that does not give NM awards.</p>
<p>My D just received acceptance letter to Fordham along with full tuition for 4 years based on being NMSF. Fordham is very generous towards National Merit Scholars.</p>
<p>My son was a NMF last year--it is confusing -- Frankly I dont fully understand why it exists based on one test; but it does result in significant scholarships at some uinversities....</p>
<p>Look for material and call the NMSC(?on acronym) there is a process to change your first choice.....</p>
<p>We are in Texas and naming a first choice --for scholarships --can be changed through about April .... UT-Austin ultimately gave about a 1/2 scholarship for NMSC (plus other criteria) and Texas Tech offers $64,000 over 5 years for NMF.... </p>
<p>What we did was leave it undecided --I believe that is an option -- until about early Feb,and then changed to UT-Austin ..... I might add even though that wasnt his top choice </p>
<p>He wanted to attend West point, was accepted into their 'civil' prep program and is spending a year there, before entering west point in June ..... it looks like a great option, (though limited kudos at graduation since he didnt get a direct admit and this offer came in JUne) </p>
<p>So two points... NMF may help a little in admittances,doesnt seem to matter as to which is labeled firs choice </p>
<p>and
Kids choose options that surpise parents and we have embraced it</p>
<p>OhMother--I agree with Susantm and Shennie. It does not make sense to list as a 1st choice school with NM one that does not participate in the program. My older S was a NM Scholar. I cannot remember which school he listed as his first choice for the NMSC folks, but he chose a school where it would have mattered. Later, he got financial aid offers from several schools that were very generous, even though some of the schools did not participate in NM. I think the NM status still influences the likelihood of getting other aid. For example Cornell, even though the offer was supposedly need-based, put substantial scholarship grants in his package instead of loans or work study. University of Rochester I think offered $10,000 a year because he got the NM. MIT did not participate in NM and gave him very little financial aid. Eventually, the University of Delaware gave him a full four-year merit scholarship--room, board, tuition, books, fees, etc. (yes he was an engineering major) which he accepted. He was then able to get the NM $2000 grant (it is now $2,500) and put that in his account at UD and he used it for winter study abroad in France his freshman year since all his other expenses were already covered. Some schools reduce their financial aid by the amount of the NM award. So the NM can serve as a springboard to other money, beyond what comes from the program itself, or be worth nothing. But listing a NM participating school will not affect your D's chances at being accepted to Princeton. And I would check with some of the other schools about other merit aid. Being a NM finalist might get her noticed for other awards.</p>
<p>All the colleges my S applied to only awarded the $2500. Later, thru CC, I learned of many colleges that give merit awards thru all 4 years. They seek NMF like OM's child. There are links here that will give you lists of schools that participate</p>
<p>Thanks for all the wonderful advice. I'll suggest to D that she read your posts - she can then decide which school to list (other than Princeton or Cornell). 2mch2sn, it sounds like your son is a Dupont Scholar at UDel, how is he liking it? We visited over the summer, met with one of the mechanical engineering profs and the Director of Choirs - both were very encouraging. The choir director thought she might have a shot at the Dupont award. We weren't impressed by the layout or the dorms, but that is secondary I suppose. We'll have to wait and see on all of these schools. She's applying for several private scholarships locally that could make Cornell a possibility.</p>
<p>You might want to read this helpful information from Carleton College. <a href="http://apps.carleton.edu/admissions/overview/ntlmerit/%5B/url%5D">http://apps.carleton.edu/admissions/overview/ntlmerit/</a></p>
<p>
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There is a final group of 2500 or so Finalists who are name National Merit Scholars by NM itself. The Scholars are awarded $2500 to be used at the school of their choice, regardless if the school participates in the NM program or not.
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</p>
<p>On what basis are those 2500 Finalists chosen?</p>
<p>I think this is the eternal question without a definitive answer. There have been absolutely fabulous students at our school with perfect scores, GPA's, unbelievable EC's, and one a couple of years ago who was selected to the USA Today team, and none of them were selected for NM Scholar. The USA Today student was probably the most accomplished student in our state that year (and a wonderful person too). Maybe someone knows more about how they're selected, but from my personal knowledge of our school I couldn't begin to tell you.</p>
<p>OhMother--</p>
<p>Yes, my S was a DuPont Scholar. He had a fabulous experience at UD. He formed close relationships with teachers, made great friends, participated extensively in community service and graduated with a chemical engineering degree, a French minor, and many honors and awards. He then went on to get a Master's degree in Engineering for Sustainable Development at the University of Cambridge, England (joint program with MIT), and is now a first-year law student at the University of Pennsylvania, where he is also receiving a generous merit scholarship. Many of his friends were also DuPont scholars and have also gone on to graduate school and great accomplishments. His dorm rooms got better as he went along, but truthfully he enjoyed his freshman dorm quite a bit, even with the cramped room. The Honors program kids were placed together in the dorm and it was very social, but not based on drinking, etc. He completed his undergrad career with no debt, and actually came out ahead by a couple thousand dollars with senior awards factored in, money that he was able to use toward grad school. I would definitely recommend the program.</p>
<p>I, too, don't know how the 2500 are selected. I know one student who received one. He had a 1600 SAT (one sitting) and a 236 PSAT along with excellent grades and ECs. I always assumed he got picked based on his test scores, but maybe that is not the case.</p>
<p>Ohmother - If your daughter picks Penn State as her first choice and is named as a NM Scholar, she will not receive money from Penn State for NM. However, the boy I referred to above attended a NM participating school - Carleton. Carleton normally awards $2000 each year for 4 years to NM finalists. This boy ended up getting $2500 from NM his first year, and then Carleton awarded him $2000 merit aid for his remaining 3 years. They didn't want to penalize him for being named a Scholar. It is possible, and probably even likely, that other schools do something similar.</p>
<p>My DD received a NM sponsored $2500 scholarship. She had a 1540 SAT1 (only took once), decent SAT IIs (750, 740, 800), and a strong EC focus - but no state or national recognition, and great essays.</p>
<p>My advice concurs w/ above - choose among schools on your list that give scholarships based on NMSF & pick the one that you would most like to attend or w/ the best possible scholarship. This is not a decision to agonize over as it can always be amended. Leave the agony to the final decision LOL! My son (also w/ first time 1600 + good sats & all APs = 5) rec'd 2500 NMS after listing a state univ., and at the last minute changed to Stanford & then Yale. can be kind of heady! GL!!!</p>