<p>My daughter -- a straight A student in a very competitive high school, with a combined SAT score of 2240 and SAT IIs scores of 800 and 760 -- really hates math and clearly (based on her ECs and essays) is interested in the social sciences and humanities. She decided -- way back during her sophomore year when she was choosing classes for junior year -- that she would not take calculus. So she took AP Statistics her junior year (to better balance her AP classes) and pre-calc her senior year. Other than that, she has taken the most rigorous courses offered in her school (though she has taken Bio, Chem and Physics at the honors level rather than AP). How much do you think the lack of calculus will hurt her in admissions to top tier schools?</p>
<p>It shouldn’t hurt. Calculus is not expected. It may be unusual not to have taken it for someone coming from a high school that offers it, and who is applying to a very selective technical college (e.g. MIT, Caltech). But I don’t expect that she’ll be applying to such colleges.</p>
<p>So long as her guidance counselor/registrar marks her transcript “most rigorous” (which from your description it is) she will be a very strong candidate.</p>
<p>She should take care not to let the message that “she hates math” come through in her essays or interviews. That she took AP Statistics is an indication that she is in fact capable of higher level math courses, and that would help her application.</p>
<p>Thanks. I hope you are correct! Any other opinions?</p>
<p>Actually, Calculus will be expected for many (if not all) elite schools. Top schools expect students to take the most challenging curriculum.</p>
<p>My son’s friend found out that Georgetown rejected him for taking Statistics instead of Calculus. </p>
<p>What is your D’s likely major? If she’s going for a B.S, she’ll likely have to take Calculus in college, so she might as well take it in high school.</p>
<p>Getting accepted to elite schools is hard enough. Why make that worse by not taking calculus?</p>
<p>I see from your other posts, your D has applied to…</p>
<p>Brown (ED, legacy)
Northwestern
WashU
Wesleyan
Vassar
Bowdoin
Colby
Carleton
American
University of Vermont</p>
<p>Did she get deferred from Brown?</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>That is completely and utterly bogus. No reasonable university would ever do that.</p>
<p>Well, if she had to do it over, knowing that elite schools may expect it and that not having taken it may hurt her chances, she probably would take calculus. But it is too late for that now. She will likely major in political science, for which she is highly unlikely to need calculus. In fact, she took Statistics in part because she thought it would be more useful in the social sciences.</p>
<p>Yes, she was deferred from Brown.</p>
<p>And I have never heard of a college specifically informing an applicant of the reason for his rejection.</p>
<p>^^^</p>
<p>I just talked to the mom and this is what she said…</p>
<p>They found out the reason through their GC (who has a close relationship with Georgetown), and the family also had a relative that worked in Georgetown admissions. </p>
<p>The GC was told essentially the same thing that the insider told the family. The insider said that he didn’t take calculus, and the GC was told that it was because he didn’t take the most challenging curriculum. Since the only challenging class that he didn’t take was Calculus, the second response confirmed the first. </p>
<p>I should have asked if he applied ED and was deferred to RD or not. If that’s what happened, then that may have been another reason why the GC got that info. GC’s sometimes contact the schools for deferred students to find out what else the school wants/needs.</p>
<p>it’s true that most times you can’t find out.</p>
<p>When I interviewed at one Ivy, the on campus interviewer (not an alum, an admissions person) asked my why I had taken only Honors Calculus AB, and not BC. I had also taken AP stat at the same time. I was deferred and ultimately denied, so I do think some places pay attention to that. And I was not applying to a math, science, or engineering program. I’m not saying that’s the reason I didn’t get in, but was pretty surprised that they even asked me about it.</p>
<p>Everything I have heard says that Calculus is basically a prerequisite in order to get into an elite school.</p>
<p>I know a girl who was accepted to Stanford early action who has not taken calculus. I think it probably really depends on the rest of your application.</p>
<p>Everything that I have read would indicate that mom2collegekids is correct. The top schools want to see calculus and AP for all three sciences in they are offered. That being said, I have a very close friend who took the most challenging math class offered his junior year, but dropped down for his senior year because it took him over two hours per night to do the Calc BC problems. he was the editor of the school paper and could not do both. He was very honest about it. The next year he went to Harvard.</p>
<p>There are a few “tells” I have read in comments from adcoms both on this BB, and in books. This seems to be relevant to the top 30 or so colleges and universities:</p>
<p>1) a humanities-headed major not taking Calculus
2) taking AP Enviro instead of AP Bio (this was from a Wesleyan adcom who asked his/her colleagues “what’s with all this AP Enviro (expletive) I see more and more these days?”
3) a math/science intended major not taking the four fundamental math/science APs: Bio, Chem, Calculus BC, Physics
4) taking honors in place of AP</p>
<p>Look, it’s no different from a coach in sports who notices who is doing real situps and real pushups during conditioning vs. the ones who are trying to make them look real but are only doing them half way.</p>
<p>apptime2x: I have trouble following what you mean by “other than that, she’s taken the most rigorous courses offered at her school” but then you say Honors instead of AP. So you’re saying she HASN’T taken those APs, but instead the honors (easy) version of all those fundamental courses?</p>
<p>I can tell you that at our local school, there are three very different, distinct tracks of classes, and they compare as follows:</p>
<p>AP C or D grade = Honors B grade = Regular A grade. The difficulty levels and quality of student is that different.</p>
<p>They are as different in difficulty/attainment as Major League Baseball vs. Minor League A ball, vs. high school ball.</p>
<p>glido – the important thing with your friend is that he proved he could excel in Calculus, but then decided (after proving he could do it) to re-direct his energies. Big difference between that, and not even trying.</p>
<p>I know someone who got an early write from Harvard who didn’t take calc.</p>
<p>apptimex2,</p>
<p>3 years ago my daughter applied to and was accepted to 3 of those schools on your D’s list. Northwestern-Medill, Carleton, and UVM-OOS, Honors (one of her safeties). She had no math her senior year, and no calc in hs. Though I doubt she put in in any of her materials, I think she came out of the womb hating math.</p>
<p>This is a little off from the OPs situation, but my D who didn’t take any AP science, but who did take AP calc was admitted EA to Gtown. So the commonly repeated mantra that you need all those APs ain’t necessarily so.</p>
<p>My school’s val two years ago was accepted to Williams taking IB Math Studies SL (applied math). But other kids who’ve taken similar paths have been deferred from Duke (we’ll see if she’s accepted soon) and usually don’t even apply to OOS schools.</p>