@WFUparent1 this is not a legitimate complaint, because the OP’s understanding of the situation is not correct. The policy is spelled out on the website but the OP may not have read it but posted her/his incorrect understanding of the policy as a complaint. We don’t know details because the OP has not returned to the thread.
Could you spell out in detail exactly how that happened?
No, actually, can we not? Or move the conversation to PM or its own thread? Parent #2’s experience with kid having to take summer school classes have nothing to do with the OP, and only serve to derail the thread.
Personally I think it’s far bolder to suggest a parent is lying about his/her child’s AP score, than to point out a school has financial motives to limit availability of required classes during the regular school year. Signing off now as I have to go help my daughter move into her new apartment!
It’s one course. Gee whiz. Focus on the present. C’est la vie.
Hopefully, the OP moved on.
Students take AP courses or equivalent (IB, AICE, DE/PSEO…) because they’re the expected preparation for highly selective colleges. Admitted students can expect to be surrounded by students who took similar courses and know enough of the content and skills for them to be taken for granted. Not tki f these classes makes admission more unlikely and, if admitted, makes it harder to follow the pace (since content and skills are taken for granted by the professors).
Don’t forget, a chunk of OP’s agrument is, “My son could be expanding his mind with art or music or history or music instead of another useless calculus course.” Would he take those? He can still take electives.
I never looked at AP classes as a way for my kids to get college credit. If they did in the end, that would be a bonus. We looked at taking AP classes and tests as a way of taking the most rigorous courses available and strengthening their applications by being able to report that they did well on the tests.
Yes, it’s somewhat of a racket and expensive if you take all the tests, but I also believe they helped my kids be very academically ready for college. I believe taking those APs, while they might not have resulted in college credit, helped them to hit the ground running freshman year, not be overwhelmed by college work, and maintain good GPAs. My son in fact, chose not to take the 2nd Physics AP test, even though he could have used the credit at his college, because Physics was his major and he wanted to make sure he had a firm grounding before getting to upper-level courses.
OP, regardless of the calc requirement, your child will find the overall divisional reqs at WFU to be plenty of material to achieve well roundedness. If anything, most complain they have to take so many credits outside of their major / minor. Also, as others have stated, your child will likely also find the rigor of class (calculus or other) is at a different level then HS. At least that’s been mys son’s experience and he came loaded with lots of AP classes including 5s.
Thank you OP for bringing this to my attention. Kid is applying this year as a math major. Took Calc BC (5) in 10th grade. Kid is several levels up in math now, and having to “restart” back at Calc BC without the ability to test out (using a WFU test) is discouraging. I’ll ask this question when we visit. [EDIT: Just checked math dept. website. Math majors get credit. Whew. AP Credit is maybe a departmental decision?]
Where does it actually say that WFU business does not allow AP credit to fulfill the calculus (MST 111 or 112) requirement listed at https://bulletin.wfu.edu/school-business/undergraduate-business-program-admission/ ?
https://prod.wp.cdn.aws.wfu.edu/sites/120/2012/06/Advanced-Placement-Policy-2018-2019.pdf says that a 4-5 on AP calculus AB counts for MST 111, while a 4-5 on AP calculus BC counts for MST 112.
I’m not sure what does/ does not get credit. For B School admission / prereq purposes I do recall hearing that a waived class req doesn’t factor in to GPA. That may be the issue as the primary courses prior to applying are Econ, Calc, and Accounting (you take Stats and Finance in concert with acceptance (2nd semester soph). My guess is many students take Calc whether they have to or not to get a third grade in the calculation as they consider both total GPA and prereq GPA. Accounting knocks a lot of people down a peg. The average GPAs for admitted B school students typically track at overall 3.6 / B school pre req 3.3. That should give you an indication of the rigor involved.
For business majors if you scored high enough on AP calc, it won’t fulfill the calc required for business.
They make you take the next level at WF.
But if you arrive at WF without AP calc, then all you need to take is the first calc course.
Thank you for being the voice of reason. It seems that many parents are unwilling to face the truth that many universities do not always have the students’ best interests in mind.
That is a leap, and imo is at best a serious exaggeration. Having sat on the committees that decide things like this (what is the essential material that a student with this degree should be familiar with? what are the core courses required for the major? what is the level of competence required for the next level / overall? what equivalencies are fair? etc., etc. etc ) there are very likely elements that are not obvious. And at the universities that I know best the department (which sets the coursework rules) does not typically get ‘extra’ funding from summer course revenue.
I don’t know anything first hand about WF from the institutional side, and have no dog in this particular hunt. But I know a fair few other colleges who believe that AP Calc is less rigorous (and/or does not cover all the same material) than their own first year course. And I know a lot of other schools who don’t allow AP exams to meet major requirements. That the OP (& the OP’s student) made the assumption that it would be ok looks like a mistake, not evidence of perfidy on the part of WF. That the OP’s student’s advisor (assuming that the advisor knew that the student was a prospective business student, a fact not in evidence, as we don’t know if the student arrived with that plan or if it came later) didn’t catch this is evidence of bad advising, but again, not necessarily perfidious.
The lesson learned from OPs post is a good one. It appears that not only should you check the intended university’s AP policy (and from a quick check, it looks like some top 10 universities give credit for even calc AB), but you also need to check any possible majors at each university for their requirements - if the AP credit is of concern to the student/family). I never would have thought of that, and especially if your student is undecided going in, why would you think about that? It does seem arbitrary that a college would require some business majors to take higher level math than others. I can’t think of a reason for that.
I’m not sure that the student was required to take a higher level: I would have thought that they could have taken the required Math 111 (or 112, if going for the MathBus path) but didn’t want to b/c they felt that it was duplicative of their AP work. WF is explicit (and has been for at least 10 years) that APs can NOT be used to fulfill major requirements. So, if you have an AP in a course that is part of your major you either take the intro course OR you take a higher level course. This is not unique to the business program, or to WF for that matter. At WF, either way, you do get credit for the AP Calc score towards graduation requirements.
The thing is: it is not a surprise: the info is available. A student considering the course will see the requirements on the home page, and if they check to see the what exemptions there are, the policy is in bold at the top of the page. You don’t have to like the policy- that’s fair- but shouting accusations about the school ‘not caring’ or trying to milk students for money b/c the policy didn’t work for your student is another thing altogether.
Question: Would your son NOT have chosen WF if he had known in advance that AP Calc would not place him out of the college calc course?
If placing out of calculus by virtue of having taken AP Calc was a high priority, then that should have been thoroughly investigated before committing to this university. You (and your son perhaps?) assumed. Your assumption did not bear out. Lesson learned. Don’t assume.
I don’t understand the unethical accusation either.
Link to a WFU web page that says this?
WFU web pages regarding AP credit says that they cannot be used to fulfill divisional requirements, which are general education requirements ( https://admissions.wfu.edu/academics/divisional-requirements/ ). But those are different from major requirements.
While I agree with you in principle @HogeDoty , I wouldn’t worry so much about it. It’s a single class, and now your child will benefit from his hard work and preparation with an easier time than many others.